My PR card is expiring in 1st week of Dec 2007. I had landed in 2002 early when PR cards where not in force, so got one by applying later.

When I started to account the days that I was outside Canada, going back 5 yrs from now, I am 60 days over the max 1095 days allowed. I don't meet any of the 4 optional criteria's where you can stay outside and still count them as inside.

I am currently staying inside Canada and plan to be here for good. So my question is that if I left my card to expire in Dec and apply for renewing it only in June next year, then I will easily meet the min required 2 years of stay, if I count 5 years backward from Jun 2008.
So can I live inside Canada on an expired PR Card ?

If I need to urgently leave Canada during the period it's expired, is there any document that I can get (like a Returning Resident Permit, which I believe is no longer issued) to leave and return to Canada without issues and then apply for renewal ?

The PR Card renewal form Instructions in Appendix A of the guide(IMM 5445E, Page A1) and the instructions on the form itself (IMM 5444E, Pg 3, question 19, Option 3) are incosistent and this messed my plans up.

The guide say that you can count the days outside as inside if you were accompanying your spouse who is also a PR and they are satisfying there own residency obligations. My spouse landed after me and has not completed her 5 years yet and will complete in Jun next year. She will easily meet the required 2 yrs of stay if she continues to say inside. I was banking on using this clause, but then the form itselfs adds the additional restriction that the spouse should have been working for a Canadian business etc.
I can argue with them on this, but don't want to do all this, so was wondering if I renew if after it expires. I have strong ties to show them of my intentions to continue to stay in Canada.

Thanks
Navin

Hi Naveen,

Canadian PR Card is valid for FIVE years from the date of issue. It is the official proof of your status as a Permanent Resident in Canada. Do not let it expire. Get all of the Renewal papers ready and submit atleast Sixty days before you travel or the expiry date to the proper address given in their web site.
http://www.cic.gc.ca" rel="nofollow">LINK
Go to the right hand side and at the bottom of their web page you will see 'Get a Permanent Resident Card'.
OR call 1 888 242 2100 and get all of the details from them.
I do not think that they will penalise you for being away, unduly, beyond the normal permissible days of absence. You are here and use it to your best advantage.

Freddie.

Is it necessery to renew PR Card when it expires?
If I am allowed to enter into Canada with out questioning and unable to fulfill the condition of 730 days in 5 years, can I wait until I accumulate those days(730 days)and then apply for renewal?
If I do so, I will fulfill the conditions and get my card renewed.
Am I corect? Please clarify.
Thanks.

Thanks Freddie,

I am just hoping anyone else who did not meet the required days has already applied and would share what the outcome was. These immigration officers tend to work like a computer and don't take the Human emotions into consideration that much as we would think they might do.
I just don't want to 100% accurate in my accounting of days outside and get messed up, while other's get away making blatant lies even on citizenship applications and gettting it.
I was hoping other PR's or atleast Mr. Massood would reply, as he might have gone through PR status appeals.

Quote:

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Originally posted by ftfl

Hi Naveen,

Canadian PR Card is valid for FIVE years from the date of issue. It is the official proof of your status as a Permanent Resident in Canada. Do not let it expire. Get all of the Renewal papers ready and submit atleast Sixty days before you travel or the expiry date to the proper address given in their web site.
http://www.cic.gc.ca" rel="nofollow">LINK
Go to the right hand side and at the bottom of their web page you will see 'Get a Permanent Resident Card'.
OR call 1 888 242 2100 and get all of the details from them.
I do not think that they will penalise you for being away, unduly, beyond the normal permissible days of absence. You are here and use it to your best advantage.

Freddie.

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Navin

IMHO the Immigration Authorities at the check point let you inside into canada because you DO have a valid PR card to enter into Canada. The people who check these number of days for whatever valid reasons are the Canadian Citizenship authorities. That is my conclusion for what it is. If their computers are set up to detect the flaws in the system and calculate if you would ever fill the required number of days in five years and then STOP you for any reason at the Immigration check point, then, you would have been stopped from re-entering. It did not happen.

Say for instance you do not want to live here any more and want to wind down your stay and want to sell and clear out of Canada and go to another destination, your PR card is still valid to enter. So, you do have a right to enter. Hence my request to you is to get all of the application forms for the renewal and pay the dues, get the pictures for the card and renew like a good old resident of Canada. There a lot of residents never ever want to get Canadian citizenship for wahtever reasons that they have, & are currently renewing their PR Cards as this permits them the same benefits for crossing and re-entering as a Citizen of Canada. Hence 'my reasoning' that 'they will not penalise you' for being delinquent. So. please call them and get the forms and renew just about when sixty days are getting near for the expiry or whenever you are ready to travel and the card might expire during your journey outside of Canada.

I am playing the devils advocate. So, be guided.

Is this clear enough.....?

Freddie.

Yes, it's clear enough. I have all the forms filled, photo's taken and just waiting to take it to a Notary for getting gurantor's signature. It's all soft copies of the forms, so I was debating whether to modify the info and not go into the hassle of appealing.
If I say as it is and apply, I did also draft a letter to be sent with the form, explaining the circumstances behind the shortfall, putting emphasis on CIC's partial fault in prolonging my wife's PR approval, layoff and then unable to get a job again for long time and also highlighting that upon return I did to my son's PR and have brought a house and both me and my wife now have jobs. All this in the hope this will provoke there humanitarian and compassionate thinking.

The part about they checking whether you fulfilled the required days or will be able to fullfill, being checked at the border does not work. Last year when I returned after being away for a while, I was coming for an interview. He asked me in detail regarding my absences (and I don't recall what all I told) and just warned that it's my responsibility to fulfill the number of days when I apply for renewal of the PR card. So my conclusion is that even if you they know how long you have been away and depending on your entry date, how many more days you could stay, they cannot stop you from entering. The whole reasoning being, they go back 5 years from the time you apply. So technically you can stay out for 4 years and 11 months on the day you re-enter and then stay for the next 2 years inside on an expired card and then apply for renewal and they will then do it.

In my case, I worked the scenario out on how long I might have to stay on an expired card and that would be 6 months, add to that roughly two months to process the application, so if I applied next year May, then I would get it by July. But I just don't want to do this, as that would have the hassles of not being able to leave Canada in any emergencies.

I am just waiting to hear...atleast from one PR who was short by few days and if they applied for renewal...what happened. Appeal process is expensive, costs $4k to do through a lawyer. Will probably wait for a week or so and then decide how to apply. I do have to verify by calling them if they ask for the existing card to be sent. If they do, then it's dumb as what do you do when they take 40 or so days to process. This is a problem either way...whether you apply before it expires or afterwards.

Quote:

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Originally posted by ftfl

Navin

IMHO the Immigration Authorities at the check point let you inside into canada because you DO have a valid PR card to enter into Canada. The people who check these number of days for whatever valid reasons are the Canadian Citizenship authorities. That is my conclusion for what it is. If their computers are set up to detect the flaws in the system and calculate if you would ever fill the required number of days in five years and then STOP you for any reason at the Immigration check point, then, you would have been stopped from re-entering. It did not happen.

Say for instance you do not want to live here any more and want to wind down your stay and want to sell and clear out of Canada and go to another destination, your PR card is still valid to enter. So, you do have a right to enter. Hence my request to you is to get all of the application forms for the renewal and pay the dues, get the pictures for the card and renew like a good old resident of Canada. There a lot of residents never ever want to get Canadian citizenship for wahtever reasons that they have, & are currently renewing their PR Cards as this permits them the same benefits for crossing and re-entering as a Citizen of Canada. Hence 'my reasoning' that 'they will not penalise you' for being delinquent. So. please call them and get the forms and renew just about when sixty days are getting near for the expiry or whenever you are ready to travel and the card might expire during your journey outside of Canada.

I am playing the devils advocate. So, be guided.

Is this clear enough.....?

Freddie.

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Hallo my Seniors,

I would like to know that if one has not been able to stay for 2 years in canada out of the 5 years validity of the PR card but is in canada from the last six months of expiry of the PR card, can one continue to live and work in canada . Also can one apply for renewal of the PR card in such a case
regards,
Akhildua