Hi,
Before I begin with my post (which might be rather long) let me start by saying that this is my personal experience and I do not intend to offend anyone by this. The reason for me placing a post on CD is merely sharing a bad experience with fellow CDs just the way we share them with friends. So I do not want a series of hate mails/ posts following this post, though you are most welcome to share your opinions.

So - After hearing all the hype about the Swaminarayan Mandir, we were thinking of visiting it once. Luckily we got an invitation to join a formal function that was about to happen on 24th July. And our experience starts from here -

Just when we were planning to go on 24th we came to know that children were not allowed at this event....???(Since when did Indian Mandirs started putting restrictions on children) - Alright - Like good citizens and people who do not want to knowingly intervene in matters we decided to go some other day.

Come Friday - in the morning we thought we would visit the mandir - again all in good faith - My husband calls in the morning to know whether they have any aarti or puja so that we could make it - The reply comes - they have some swami visiting in the morning. So if we wish we could visit - only thing women wont be allowed in the mandir till the swami is there. (WOW). - Again like good people we decide to go in the evening.

Come evening, we finally make it to the temple. We are greeted by seperate sections of shoes for men and women... (...in this day and age???... Oh Well). We take the tour of the temple and are truely amazed by all the carvings and the beauty of the mandir.

Time for us to leave.... In Hindu culture especially we never leave a temple without having tirth or prashad. By prashad I dont mean meals. Only some mishri or something. In this temple we did not see anything. Dear husband went to ask if there was any prashad. Got an arrogant reply that "The timings are over" (since when did prashad started having timings) "And if we want prashad we can come the next day within some specified timings" (We were not there for food. By gods grace we have more than enough).

Already had enough experiences. Still on our way out - friends son (3 yrs) wanted his mom to get his shoes for him which were in the mens section. Mom goes to get the shoes and suddenly a couple of guards and organization members come running warning her that she is not allowed in that section. How dare she went there when it was clearly specified it was mens section. By this time we were really upset and wanted to get out of that place as soon as possible. Still that was not the end... We still had to experience more.

Once out of the mandir - my son (3 and a half yrs) and friends son (3 yrs) were putting their hands in the water of the pond like thing they have built outside. The fountains were off and being kids it was their natural instinct to put their hands in water. There was no splashing or anything. However again a couple of guards came shouting that they were not allowed to do so. And that was it for us. How could they say that kids cannot put their hands in water. It was not any holy water - in fact quite dirty for that matter. And even if it was holy - hinduism has given kids and gods an equal status.

All this has made me extremely upset and I have a very bad taste of this mandir in my mouth. I would never ever visit it in my life. I feel that if people who have not understood the true essence of hinduism have no right to build such temples and spread misconceptions about our culture and religion and that too in a foreign land where there are already enough wrong notions about a rich religion like ours. If money is the only thing that they want to show off, then build a resort - not a mandir. When you create such a hype about a place and want to show off the 40 million dollars that you have spent on building such a structure - naturally people are going to visit - and they may not necessarily be of the same religion. And to those people you are going to show this behaviour and this attitude and arrogance and show them how women are secondry. On the contrary hinduism is the only religion where women are equal to men. We have gods and equally powerful godesses. Women are not just objects of desire in hinduism. In fact it is the only religion where the word for power is feminine "Shakti". There are many more examples that I can give. But the space would not be enough.

Anyways... All said and done, I feel atleast hindu mandirs should not be involved in the game of money. If you want to show off your money, there are thousands of other ways. And spreading misconceptions about a religion as scientific, ancient and rich as ours is the last things that the mandirs should be doing.

There's a very good website that anyone and everyone who is interested in knowing the essence on hinduism should visit.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info" rel="nofollow">LINK

Anyways, these were my experiences and thoughts which I thought I would share with fellow CDs.

I sympathize with your sad experience.

I am no expert on Swaminarayan sect of Hinduism. However, my understanding from discussion with my friends following that religion is that the "Sampradaya" came in to existence/prominence during Islamic rule in India and hence has always focused on preventing conversion to Islam/Christianity. In the process some of the customs that were "conservative" were incorporated in practice like segregation of men and women. Such a practice is prevalent in Jews and Islam today. My understanding is that it is also prevalent in Tirupathi. While I do not approve it personally , it might be good idea when the devotees are very large in numbers to prevent misbehaviour. Religious practices evolve and change over a period of time and in current times and circumstances, I do not see any reason to segregate the devotees in men and women.

I certainly feel that there was no need to be rude while explaining code. I feel especially bad about preventing kids from playing outside temple.

As you have rightly pointed out that this does not reflect great Hindu philosophy and religion. I wish you had a better information about the code and practice followed at Swaminarayan Temple which would have prepared you to follow the same, whether you agree to it or not.

In concluding I would like to Say that BAPS has done some extraordinary and exemplary volunteer and charity work and has helped consolidating manly intermediary castes of India and provided them a sense of pride and recognition that they have deserved

Pink Petals experience only reinforces the belief that I had and which i also used to share with CD's. The belief was : Once a Desi builds a structure that is meant to be used mainly by Desi's, Once you enter the compound of this strcture you are magically transported to Desiland (India) and all the rules of India are adopted there and enforced by Desi's (Voulnteer or Otherwise)
I shall explain this with a few examples.

1. The Indian embassy at Toronto ( There is no need to explain anything here. Once you enter this embassy you are exposed to arrogance, people who donot know proper English or no english at all etc...)

2. Gerrard Street/ Shops there : The same dirtyness as India. Once you enter any store, the owner or his representative follows you to see
a. That you are not stealing anything
b. That you do not physically touch items.

3. Any Desi Business : Same arrogance of people in the 80's in Desi land.

Sympathising with Pink Petals, the best that you could do is to stay away from these places. Maybe with the dwindling visitors and negetive feedback, may be things can get better.

I am sure that Sankaracharya would be able to give some more insight into this matter.

TK A

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I am a Gents and not a Ladies.

Incidentally two temples I have believed in are both in India and 'Prasad' is not given all the time. Shri Shirdi Sai Baba Temple in Shirdi Prasad is not distributed. Shree NathJi Temple in Nathdwara does not distribute Prasad. One has to buy the Prasad from the Temple office or you can donate money to the Temple and you get Prasad. So if this particular Temple has rules on the timings of Prasad what is wrong with that. I understand you are not used to such rules any more but that the the way certain Temples are regulated. I do not find anything obnoxious with that. Of course you have a right to your opinion.

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Time for us to leave.... In Hindu culture especially we never leave a temple without having tirth or prashad. By prashad I dont mean meals. Only some mishri or something. In this temple we did not see anything. Dear husband went to ask if there was any prashad. Got an arrogant reply that "The timings are over" (since when did prashad started having timings) "And if we want prashad we can come the next day within some specified timings" (We were not there for food. By gods grace we have more than enough).

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Already had enough experiences. Still on our way out - friends son (3 yrs) wanted his mom to get his shoes for him which were in the men's section. Mom goes to get the shoes and suddenly a couple of guards and organization members come running warning her that she is not allowed in that section. How dare she went there when it was clearly specified it was mens section. By this time we were really upset and wanted to get out of that place as soon as possible. Still that was not the end... We still had to experience more.

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I absolutely agree with Pink Petals, as I had visited the Swaminarayan temple on the evening of the inauguration. My family and I came away with a bad taste in our mouths. The temple staff was arrogant and I saw them dragging a child away because he was waiting for prasad. A couple of kids were sitting patiently for prasad, which the priest whisked past them to some unknown place. The guard then started chastising the children.

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goldie

Pink Petal

That sounds awful. Im very sorry for your and your family's experience. Sikhs practice this sort of segregation, which I've always hated, (which i've always spoken up against...but oh well thats another story)

One thing that I love about going to Mandir's is that they are so relaxed about sitting with your spouse and not having to cover your head.

the people running this temple may have had bad experiences with children in other mandir's and may now be able to command anythign because its 'their' temple...yes I am guessing but i have seen this in gurudwara's. People go power mad. Why else the need to create their "own' temple?

Hence the question I asked weeks ago - what was the need for another mandir..when there are so many already? yes its a beautiful peice of architecture, but that 40 MILL could have been used in so many ways to benefit so many people. Show the world/Canadians the kind of power and love for humankind (not just one religion) that Hindu's have...

You can write a letter to the administrators of this temple - see if that helps? How about an editorial?

If you really want to be an instigator..take your child to the mandir.. then when the place is full..you can tell your child "beta.. this is not the way we hindu's should sit. men and women are equal and shouldnt be separated. You can tell the kid 'Its ok not to get prasad all the time, but its always nice to be polite " (of course make sure someone hears you)....sounds silly but if it it was me I'd make sure they knew how I felt...

Being raised a Desi in Canada can often be very difficult because of all the conflicting messages. You have a chance to make a difference, either for the community by confronting the temple..or by teaching your child ... about the true philosphy and values of Hinduism, not just the external stuff.

good luck.

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~ Morning rain

We also went to see SwamiNarayan Manir today and our experinece was not very good. I think the staff needs more training on how to handle masses in a shopisticated way. The security guards were all behaving like they were in India with no manners and decency. Honestly I didn't get feeling like a mandir where you want to sit and spend some time for worship. It felt like that everyone came there to see the beautiful structure and after spending some time they all had left to homes. I didn't see any Pujari in the whole mandir. May be things will improve in the coming days and hindus will love to go see it again and again.