Posted on: 26-05-10 19:22:13
Very interesting. One secular insulting another secular. It seems that there is competition among India and Canada to prove their secular credentials. In the process, Canada has insulted India. Let us see whether MMS has any guts to respond. Probably MMS will beg forgiveness.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/canada-embassy-insults-india-again/116254-3.html?from=tn
New Delhi: The Canadian High Commission surely needs a lesson in diplomacy. It first called the Border Security Force (BSF) a "notoriously violent force" and now it turns out it claimed the Intelligence Bureau is involved in terrorism.
CNN-IBN learns the High Commission in New Delhi rejected the application of a retired Intelligence Bureau (IB) officer, who had applied for a temporary resident visa to visit his son who is settled in Canada.
The High Commission told SS Sidhu, who held the rank of deputy director in IB, in March 2010 that the IB is involved in terrorism and also snoops around.
The Union Home Ministry, which oversees the IB, has lodged a strong protest and called the High Commission’s comments discriminatory. The matter is now with the External Affairs Ministry.
Sidhu told CNN-IBN the High Commission rejected his visa twice on grounds that his past job was with an organization that was involved in “terror activities” and his visit could be a threat to the people of Canada.
"This is the biggest insult to the country. They have described a Home Ministry department as an organiation indulging in terrorism. I submitted my reply to the Canadian High Commission again but their reply was the same," says Sidhu.
CNN-IBN learns that Canadian High Commission also rejected the visa applications of retired Army officer Lt. General A S Bahiya and his wife because he had served in Jammu and Kashmir.
Visa requests of three serving Army officers were rejected as they may have violated human rights in Kashmir. Moreover, two serving Punjab Police officers were accused of human rights violations.
Earlier, in a diplomatic blunder, the High Commission called the BSF a "notoriously violent force" that engaged in "systematic torture".
The High Commission, while denying visa to Fateh Singh Pandher, a retired constable of BSF, told him that his visa application was "inadmissible" as he had served in a force that engaged in "systematic attacks on civilians".
Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao on May 26 reacted sharply to the High Commission’s comments on the BSF and said India takes the matter “very seriously”.
“The matter was taken up immediately with the Canadian high commission. We take this matter very seriously. We have expressed concern and we continue to take this seriously,” Rao said.
Even though MEA has taken up these new cases with Canada but what is shocking is that these may be just the tip of the iceberg.
Sources confirm these are neither isolated nor recent cases. They go back at least a couple of years and there may be more such cases. Canada has also been told it is unacceptable to cast aspersions on India's security agencies.
Sources say the Canadian High Commissioner could be summoned to clarify his country's stand and that the concerned immigration official at the High Commission will be recalled. The controversy couldn't have come at a worse time for Canada as it is counting on Indian support at the G20 summit in Toronto next month.
Probably MMS will beg forgiveness,....ya may be, in his words "If wishes were horses.....,
Or he may give a fam tour to few Canadian solders especially the ones facing trails for crime against humanity in Canadian courts.
I surely like the name Nightmare, what a ............
this smacks of hypocracy and white supremacy.
so a simple jawan in BSF is involved in terror activities?
any violence or terror that the BSF or the Indian army may have done is nothing compared to what the Canadian army is doing in Afghanistan.
and what about all the untold and shameful tortures done by the US and Brit army in Iraq?
is Canada requiring all americans and Brits who served in the army to acquire visas now?
so sir, the Yanks and the Brits have a free ride into Canada.
they can come and go any time, stay for as long as they like.
it's only because India is a third-world country with no clout and no influence in the world that we have to put up with this.
apparently India is great when it comes to hosting call centres and software programming sweat shops.
but all our people are involved in violence and torture, eh?
Quote:
Originally posted by DesiBabu70
this smacks of hypocracy and white supremacy.
so a simple jawan in BSF is involved in terror activities?
any violence or terror that the BSF or the Indian army may have done is nothing compared to what the Canadian army is doing in Afghanistan.
and what about all the untold and shameful tortures done by the US and Brit army in Iraq?
is Canada requiring all americans and Brits who served in the army to acquire visas now?
so sir, the Yanks and the Brits have a free ride into Canada.
they can come and go any time, stay for as long as they like.
it's only because India is a third-world country with no clout and no influence in the world that we have to put up with this.
apparently India is great when it comes to hosting call centres and software programming sweat shops.
but all our people are involved in violence and torture, eh?
The onus here is on Indian government to prove that BSF/Army/IB is not involved in terror activities. And from these events, it seems Indian government is not doing its job of explaining the J & K/Punjab scenario to the world.
Second, Brit/US army has not been accused of human rights violation in Iraq/Afghanistan, except for those photographed instances. If they are accused, Amnesty International does not seem to have the guts to speak out against them.
Not all our people are involved in violence and torture. That is why you and me are here.
It is understandable to be drawn into emotions while discussing about your country of origin. But take a while to think about this matter objectively and atleast trying to find out the failure of of Indian government, past and present, to point the finger at the real culprit.
Quote:it is too early for you to judge this.
Originally posted by meghal
The onus here is on Indian government to prove that BSF/Army/IB is not involved in terror activities.
this is a recent incident and the govt. has already taken up the matter with the CHC.
how much faster do you expect the govt. to move?
Quote:it is doing its job alright, but Canada ( "the world" ) doesn't wanna see & understand.
And from these events, it seems Indian government is not doing its job of explaining the J & K/Punjab scenario to the world.
you can take a horse to the water but you can't make him drink.
and:
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
it has been in the west's interest for decades to appease Pakistan and China at the cost of India.
they know what happened in Punjab and J&K they just won't admit it.
Quote:And that is India's problem, how?
Second, Brit/US army has not been accused of human rights violation in Iraq/Afghanistan, except for those photographed instances. If they are accused, Amnesty International does not seem to have the guts to speak out against them.
and you are saying that unless there is photographic evidence, we can't claim anything.
so where was the photographic evidence that this BSF jawan committed violent crimes?
oh wait, the burder of proof is on the visa seeker.
so he has to provide photographs showing he did NOT commit those crimes.
Quote:see this is the exact servile mentality that I am talking about.
It is understandable to be drawn into emotions while discussing about your country of origin. But take a while to think about this matter objectively and atleast trying to find out the failure of of Indian government, past and present,
governments around the world commit unabashed genocide, crimes against humanity, etc. ('Nam, Iraq, Africa, human rights violation by China, etc.) and somehow it is Indian govt. fault that they haven't been able to convince Canada govt. that we haven't done anything.
the Indian army is a legitimate soveiregin nation state's army of the world's largest democracy.
what evidence did the CHC have against this one BSF jawan or army colonel to deny his visa?
Quote:and who would that be?
to point the finger at the real culprit.
Quote:
it is too early for you to judge this.
this is a recent incident and the govt. has already taken up the matter with the CHC.
how much faster do you expect the govt. to move?
I am not judging anything. I am just stating the facts. As per rediff, this visa denial has been going since last 2 years. This issue has come to light only recently. So somebody was snoozing since last 2 years
Quote:
it is doing its job alright, but Canada ( "the world" ) doesn't wanna see & understand. you can take a horse to the water but you can't make him drink.
it has been in the west's interest for decades to appease Pakistan and China at the cost of India. they know what happened in Punjab and J&K they just won't admit it.
If it was doing its job, the atlases around world wouldn't be showing J&K as a disputed portion as not an integral part of India. So you think that Indian politicial lobbyist are doing their job perfectly and western politicians are idiots, not to take the lobbyists seriously. And if you are correct, then why would any country give priority to India's interest over their own?
Quote:
so where was the photographic evidence that this BSF jawan committed violent crimes? oh wait, the burder of proof is on the visa seeker.
I am just saying that on what basis did the Canadian immigration officials determined that BSF/IB/Indian Army commit human right violation. Again, as per rediff, Amnesty international is culprit behind this. So why Amnesty international not doing anything in Iraq or China?
And yes, proof of burden IS on visa seeker, because they want to come to Canada. Canada is not inviting them.
Quote:
see this is the exact servile mentality that I am talking about. governments around the world commit unabashed genocide, crimes against humanity, etc. ('Nam, Iraq, Africa, human rights violation by China, etc.) and somehow it is Indian govt. fault that they haven't been able to convince Canada govt. that we haven't done anything. the Indian army is a legitimate soveiregin nation state's army of the world's largest democracy. what evidence did the CHC have against this one BSF jawan or army colonel to deny his visa?
If it is not Gov't of India's fault, whose fault it is? If somebody is making false accusations against me, it is my duty to prove that the accusations are false. And I am asking the same question - how valid is CHC's evidence. As Indo-Canadians, isn't it our duty to bring this issue to attention of desi MPs/MPPs?
As an example, I am pretty sure you must have read this article. Where is India's official rebuttal on such allegations? Even if GOI does not need to reply to whims of Ms. Roy, such articles do more harm. Has GOI done anything to alleviate such damages?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/15/india.kashmir
Every government stands behind their armed forces. So should Government of India.
Morally, I do not think any person in this world - Indian/Canadian/American/Eritrian etc.etc. has the right to adopt "holier than thou" attitude.
Quote:
Originally posted by meghal
Quote:
it is too early for you to judge this.
this is a recent incident and the govt. has already taken up the matter with the CHC.
how much faster do you expect the govt. to move?
I am not judging anything. I am just stating the facts. As per rediff, this visa denial has been going since last 2 years. This issue has come to light only recently. So somebody was snoozing since last 2 years
Quote:
it is doing its job alright, but Canada ( "the world" ) doesn't wanna see & understand. you can take a horse to the water but you can't make him drink.
it has been in the west's interest for decades to appease Pakistan and China at the cost of India. they know what happened in Punjab and J&K they just won't admit it.
If it was doing its job, the atlases around world wouldn't be showing J&K as a disputed portion as not an integral part of India. So you think that Indian politicial lobbyist are doing their job perfectly and western politicians are idiots, not to take the lobbyists seriously. And if you are correct, then why would any country give priority to India's interest over their own?
Quote:
so where was the photographic evidence that this BSF jawan committed violent crimes? oh wait, the burder of proof is on the visa seeker.
I am just saying that on what basis did the Canadian immigration officials determined that BSF/IB/Indian Army commit human right violation. Again, as per rediff, Amnesty international is culprit behind this. So why Amnesty international not doing anything in Iraq or China?
And yes, proof of burden IS on visa seeker, because they want to come to Canada. Canada is not inviting them.
Quote:
see this is the exact servile mentality that I am talking about. governments around the world commit unabashed genocide, crimes against humanity, etc. ('Nam, Iraq, Africa, human rights violation by China, etc.) and somehow it is Indian govt. fault that they haven't been able to convince Canada govt. that we haven't done anything. the Indian army is a legitimate soveiregin nation state's army of the world's largest democracy. what evidence did the CHC have against this one BSF jawan or army colonel to deny his visa?
If it is not Gov't of India's fault, whose fault it is? If somebody is making false accusations against me, it is my duty to prove that the accusations are false. And I am asking the same question - how valid is CHC's evidence. As Indo-Canadians, isn't it our duty to bring this issue to attention of desi MPs/MPPs?
As an example, I am pretty sure you must have read this article. Where is India's official rebuttal on such allegations? Even if GOI does not need to reply to whims of Ms. Roy, such articles do more harm. Has GOI done anything to alleviate such damages?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/15/india.kashmir
Every government stands behind their armed forces. So should Government of India.
Morally, I do not think any person in this world - Indian/Canadian/American/Eritrian etc.etc. has the right to adopt "holier than thou" attitude.
Canadian consulate is staffed by professional foreign service employees. They are well versed in local issues, at least that's the requirement and they are certainly not ignorant.
This is just plain arrogance and stupidity of highest order on the Consulate's part. Dim witted bureaucrats are ubiquitous in govts all over the world and things like this can happen anywhere.
This may also be a case where some overworked employees in the Canadian consulate gave stupid reasons to deny visa just to break the monotony of repeating the same excuse(of not returning back to India) over and over again. Too bad it blew up on their faces.
