Quote:
Originally posted by dimple2001
Just curious....
On one end, there is this prominent figure, Anna Hazare, almost giving up his life to fight corruption. On the other end, there is the assertion (from another thread) that there is no bribe anymore....
And I quote:
"There is no bribe anymore in India. Surprising isn’t it. Bribe is now legalized. It is known as liasoning. For everything we have a liasoning agent who takes his fees. They are fees since we pay 10.3 % service tax on it (Service tax is like our HST). The liasoning agent is responsible for bribing the officials and getting the work done be it permits, licenses etc.. Liasoning charges are put even in the annual reports."
If the above is true, what in the darn world is Mr.Hazare stressing himself over?
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DELHI INDIAN
Posts: 5775
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 22-08-11 00:43:36
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 22-08-11 00:43:36
Quote:
Originally posted by dimple2001
Just curious....
On one end, there is this prominent figure, Anna Hazare, almost giving up his life to fight corruption. On the other end, there is the assertion (from another thread) that there is no bribe anymore....
And I quote:
"There is no bribe anymore in India. Surprising isn’t it. Bribe is now legalized. It is known as liasoning. For everything we have a liasoning agent who takes his fees. They are fees since we pay 10.3 % service tax on it (Service tax is like our HST). The liasoning agent is responsible for bribing the officials and getting the work done be it permits, licenses etc.. Liasoning charges are put even in the annual reports."
If the above is true, what in the darn world is Mr.Hazare stressing himself over?
Wow. You are canot read between the lines.
Let me explain. Bribe has been eliminated at all lower levels in some states (like DL, Railways, Phones, Internet etc..). However due to the lack of computerization, it is still prevalent in many offices.
The Govt. recogonises that and the companies doing business recogonises that. Let me give you a live example.
I am in charge of a commercial complex (Multi use) in Coimbatore, TN worth Rs.100 crores. We have budgeted 5% of the cost or 5 crores a bribe. We will hire a liasoning agent do do this. This guy has an office and we will give him 5 crores + 10.3 % as service tax making this legal in front of govt.. We do the govt. drawings , MOEF clearance drawings, PCB and Fire drawings and submit to the concerned authorities and we pay the required statutory fees. Then we sit back. The liasoning agent will meet with all the people doing the approvals, pay the bribes to them (he knows every official in that office) from the 5 crore that we gave as liasoning fees and will get us the approval. There are different liasoning agent for different offices and different locations. Mind it that if the drawings contravenes a law, then it will not be approved even if you give a bribe. So bribe is embedded into the indian fabric. All the MNC’s doing business with India know this (except TATA which does not give bribe and that is why their projects take 2 years for statutory approval). This is what Anna is fighting about. All the 3G, 2G, 4G, Adarsh scams are included in this.
Hope this throws some light about India.
For working class people, bribe has been eliminated.
Now I do not need to pay a bribe to get a BSNL connection (phone). I file an application after waiting 1 hr. and after 2 days I get the connection. Mind it BSNL is a govt. office. I do not need to go an queue up at the railways to get a ticket. There are agents across the city and they will reserve it online for you for Rs10 or so service charge (legal). For DL, I need to book my appointment online and then line up at the time mentioned. So if your documents are clear, then there is no waiting. For Govt. gas booking, I went to the office and they told me to get an affidavit. They gave me the format and I took the affidavit. After 20 days, I got a letter saying that my gas was approved.
So it is fairly a simple process. The offices give you ample time to take off to do personal work.
Peace to all even to Canadians in Canada
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I am a Gents and not a Ladies.
Posts: 2873
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posted on: 22-08-11 08:13:57
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posted on: 22-08-11 08:13:57
Quote:
Originally posted by tamilkuravan
Wow. You are canot read between the lines.
I don't have to read betwen the lines to know that crooked behaviour and attitude begins with the general public, whether it be mid level or higher level. It is a shame to term a bribe with a euphemism and that shows what kind of uphill struggle Mr.Hazare has in his future. Besides cleaning up the crooks in the Govt, he will have to clean the attitudes among the general populace who take comfort in the sad reality that "bribe is embedded into the Indian fabric"
.BTW, railway reservations, BSNL and gas connections have always been straightforward in at least couple of cities I know of.
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Dimple2001
Posts: 5775
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 22-08-11 09:22:46
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 22-08-11 09:22:46
Quote:
Originally posted by dimple2001
I don't have to read betwen the lines to know that crooked behaviour and attitude begins with the general public, whether it be mid level or higher level.
Not necessarily. You can not blame the general public. Our CEO has a task of signing up payrolls for 200 people every month. We have invested 20 crores on land and some 20-30 crores on building. Our owner is expecting a 20% return on his money. What can we do ? We are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. This is one of the unwanted areas of liberalization .We can not have the work stopped due to this corrupt politicians.
Anyways India offers nice returns that we can afford to give bribes. I blame this on the lack of computerization of the govt. offices
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I am a Gents and not a Ladies.
Quote:
Originally posted by tamilkuravan
I am in charge of a commercial complex (Multi use) in Coimbatore, TN worth Rs.100 crores. We have budgeted 5% of the cost or 5 crores a bribe. We will hire a liasoning agent do do this. This guy has an office and we will give him 5 crores + 10.3 % as service tax making this legal in front of govt.. We do the govt. drawings , MOEF clearance drawings, PCB and Fire drawings and submit to the concerned authorities and we pay the required statutory fees. Then we sit back. The liasoning agent will meet with all the people doing the approvals, pay the bribes to them (he knows every official in that office) from the 5 crore that we gave as liasoning fees and will get us the approval. There are different liasoning agent for different offices and different locations. Mind it that if the drawings contravenes a law, then it will not be approved even if you give a bribe. So bribe is embedded into the indian fabric. All the MNC’s doing business with India know this (except TATA which does not give bribe and that is why their projects take 2 years for statutory approval). So it is fairly a simple process. The offices give you ample time to take off to do personal work.
Peace to all even to Canadians in Canada
Dear TK,
I read your post several times to see if i may have misunderstood it. To paraphrase:
1) In short, you are in charge of a project worth 100 crores. 5 crores are set aside as a bribery fee(delicately called Liason fee). This fee is used to grease the palms of all the staff for the 'smooth movement' of the files so as to ensure the final objective of getting the project which you should be anyway getting as a fundamental right in constitution. Err..do you not see anything wrong with the above picture?.
2) what is your cut in the above 'liason fee'?
3) If this is how easy it is to justify corruption even after spending several years in Canada, i would rather stay here in a society where bribe is still considered a bribe.
sad. very sad.
Rajagopal.
Posts: 2873
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posted on: 22-08-11 11:10:36
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posted on: 22-08-11 11:10:36
A very interesting article from The Hindu on the Black Economy.
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article2373664.ece?homepage=true
Discusses how corruption outweighs the perceived benefits. It's a lengthy article, but interesting. The reader comments are quite interesting as well.
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Dimple2001
Posts: 5775
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 23-08-11 00:43:11
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 23-08-11 00:43:11
Quote:
Originally posted by Rajagopal
Dear TK,
I read your post several times to see if i may have misunderstood it. To paraphrase:
1) In short, you are in charge of a project worth 100 crores. 5 crores are set aside as a bribery fee(delicately called Liason fee). This fee is used to grease the palms of all the staff for the 'smooth movement' of the files so as to ensure the final objective of getting the project which you should be anyway getting as a fundamental right in constitution. Err..do you not see anything wrong with the above picture?.
2) what is your cut in the above 'liason fee'?
3) If this is how easy it is to justify corruption even after spending several years in Canada, i would rather stay here in a society where bribe is still considered a bribe.
sad. very sad.
Rajagopal.
Not sad Rajagopal.
Bribe is like a toilet in the house. In a clean house where the puja room is , so is the toilet. You canot bypass a toilet in the house.I donot get any liason fee but I work overtime (free of charge) to liase with the liasoning agent so that the project is on schedule and people can be paid salaries.
In Canada, unless you were in IT, you were given shit by local Canadians. This is much better than that,.
Peace
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I am a Gents and not a Ladies.
