SADAM HANGED to death
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Posted on: 05-01-07 18:20:47
here is the answer...from the link you detest 
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Washington's answer for Saudi Arabia—apart from repeating that nothing is wrong—is to suggest that a little democracy will cure everything. Talk the royal family into ceding at least part of its authority; support the reform-minded princes; set up a model parliament; co-opt the firebrands with a cabinet position or two, a minor political party, and some outright bribery; send Jimmy Carter in to monitor the first election; and in a few generations Riyadh will be Ankara, maybe even London. The governmental mechanism may be faulty, the Washington view maintains, but the people who administer the government are for the most part committed to rooting out corruption, rounding up terrorists, and recognizing the right of the people to self-government.
It's utter nonsense, of course. If an election were held in Saudi Arabia today, if anyone who wanted to could run for the office of president, and if people could vote their hearts without fear of having their heads cut off afterward in Chop-Chop Square, Osama bin Laden would be elected in a landslide—not because the Saudi people want to wash their hands in the blood of the dead of September 11, but simply because bin Laden has dared to do what even the mighty United States of America won't do: stand up to the thieves who rule the country.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jake3d
What is the record of democracies in the middle east? Which only country in the middle east, is the 'closest' to a western style democracy?Israel is the answer. So much for that, eh?
Do the people of the middle east even desire democracy?
- You really need some education to know why most of the middle east countries are not democratic.. Its no way true that the citizens would ever like to shy away from Democracy, Its because we can't afford the economical repercussions of that. Take a note of my point, unless the oil depletes to rock bottom in Middle eastern countries, they can't even dream of democracy. After the oil depletes we will not even know whether people exist in such countries paying the same attention to most of the African countries.
- Look at our India's neighboring country Pakistan. What goes behind every military coup? What keeps the Kashmir issue always on the front burner ? Under whose undisclosed support all the military coups are staged? Just because some very good decisions made by the leaders of India, It remains immuned and uninfluenced....
- Though you write pages and pages, you stick to your agenda and never forget to loose focus from that... It does not sound any different from watching the US Media. Either you've restricted yourself to think with what you see in the media jumping in the bandwagon of the average citizen here and comment based on that or you are refusing what is real...
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The cowards never started,
The weak died on the way,
Only the strong arrived.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yK1i9cLAMM
Quote:
Originally posted by JRF
- You really need some education to know why most of the middle east countries are not democratic.. Its no way true that the citizens would ever like to shy away from Democracy, Its because we can't afford the economical repercussions of that.
The citizens would not choose democracy because their culture is more tuned to religious theocracies. Like in Iran. Why did they choose a theocracy after overthrowing the US backed Shah?
Democracy in Iraq itself is a failing experiment. One cannot force a democracy on people who are not ready for it.
You really think if Saudis are given a choice, they will not choose conservative islam?
NOTE: I am not saying they would be wrong. Infact, islamic theocracies are more in keeping with their culture and values currently. It would indeed be a homegrown solution.
The question is...is the rest of the world ready for it?
Quote:
Originally posted by JRF
- Though you write pages and pages, you stick to your agenda and never forget to loose focus from that... It does not sound any different from watching the US Media. Either you've restricted yourself to think with what you see in the media jumping in the bandwagon of the average citizen here and comment based on that or you are refusing what is real...
What exactly is my agenda? Everyone including the media talks only about justice/peace/democracy or how the war in Iraq is either for justice/peace/democracy or against justice/peace/democracy.
I've been saying all along that its about self-interest...that peace and justice do not figure. How exactly am i in keeping with any agenda?
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I think I have spent enough time on the topic .
If any of you are really intersted in finding out the exact geopolitical situation...please try to gather info from all sources.
And read all media not just the popular ones.
Here is one called freemuslims...formed by US muslims and arabs. The info is an extension of what I have been saying(minus the self-interest part)...but you guys may find it easier to digest since its coming from Muslims.
Their analysis of the geopolitical situation is quite neat
http://www.freemuslims.org/issues/
this is what they agree too
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The Free Muslims Coalition strongly supports the promotion of democracy in the Middle East. However, the Coalition cautions that imposing democracy on the Middle East without first promoting secularism and destroying terrorism may lead to the creation of Islamic extremist states that will ultimately reject the democracy that brings them to power.
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and
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In fact, the common response by many citizens of the Middle East who favor the creation Islamic states is that "we tried capitalism, we tried socialism and we tried communism and they all failed so let us try Islam." The Coalition sees grave fault with this notion. Supporters of Islamic states are relying on false notions. Islam is a religion, not a blueprint for the creation of a modern state. The Koran does not contain sufficient guidance for the creation of a state. All modern states which have been founded and inspired by Islamic extremists are fascist, reactionary, impoverished and do not boast the features of democracy.
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http://www.freemuslims.org/issues/democracy.php
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Listen, religion is one of the most influenced mean to polarize people living in Harmony, distract them, arouse them and finally serve the interest in the name of religion. If you ever think, Israel solely acts for the sake of well being of Jews, you're wrong, you wouldn't find it difficult to spot the jews suffering from the hardship.. so do Saudi, so do VHP, so do Saddam, so do Ahmedinijad, so do thakrey. By far religion is the easiest catalyst to inspire the failed people who constitute the majority of the world's population. Some one knowing this psychology, what would make them not to capitalize such an easy formula?
In the absence of religion, it is the race else it is at least caste the way keep seeing things in India. Do you know the story behind the massacre in Rwanda. Well you may find it is some one's propaganda to taint the Europeans, but the fact is fact... It shouldn't surprise you to know that a race was created forcefully with in a race just to incite the difference and violence and finally serve the interests.
I have a concrete thought about shooting the Execution video of Saddam that it was shot intentionally, some his foes were intentionally planted and within a short time the video was released. Do you think it isn't a big deal to install a scanner to weed out the cellphones, was it a big deal in Iraq to execute the hecklers immediately, do you really think the state was liberal enough to allow some one to heckle this way. IHowever it yielded two benefits, a message is sent to the rest of the third world tyrannical leader (good thing), already troubled water is troubled further with deep shia/sunni gap to fish.. By the way which Islamic
Running a state based on religion is a grave notion, it would not make any room for people with different background to live in any harmony(immediately it will further be divided by caste, language, color, etc.., etc.., to ensure the chaotic arena), To the outset, how the hell this would ever be possible to expect some one to comply your rules and regulations as exploited certain group with mariage reservations & property legislation in india who turn a blind eye after moving to western world.
Unless or otherwise there is a uncompromising support from wealthy, powerful, belligerent warlords, such state would demise in no time. You could myriad example of such states remaining reasonably strong under the same support I'd been talking about.
The feelings of "What is there for me " drives the rest of the world, there isn't really an exception between 1st world and 3rd world.
I've got a feeling, I've done enough writing in this thread. time to back off.
Quote:
Originally posted by jake3d
Here is one called freemuslims...formed by US muslims and arabs. The info is an extension of what I have been saying(minus the self-interest part)...but you guys may find it easier to digest since its coming from Muslims.
Their analysis of the geopolitical situation is quite neat
http://www.freemuslims.org/issues/
this is what they agree too
---------------
The Free Muslims Coalition strongly supports the promotion of democracy in the Middle East. However, the Coalition cautions that imposing democracy on the Middle East without first promoting secularism and destroying terrorism may lead to the creation of Islamic extremist states that will ultimately reject the democracy that brings them to power.
-----------------
and
------------
In fact, the common response by many citizens of the Middle East who favor the creation Islamic states is that "we tried capitalism, we tried socialism and we tried communism and they all failed so let us try Islam." The Coalition sees grave fault with this notion. Supporters of Islamic states are relying on false notions. Islam is a religion, not a blueprint for the creation of a modern state. The Koran does not contain sufficient guidance for the creation of a state. All modern states which have been founded and inspired by Islamic extremists are fascist, reactionary, impoverished and do not boast the features of democracy.
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http://www.freemuslims.org/issues/democracy.php</font>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The cowards never started,
The weak died on the way,
Only the strong arrived.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yK1i9cLAMM
Quote:
Originally posted by JRF
Nothing you have written supports your previous assertion that people in the ME would choose democracy. Infact everything you write asserts that its for self interest that world politics work.
You have not explained my 'agenda' either. What exactly is your point? Do you have one?
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Quote:
What makes you sure the Saudis will choose a democracy? What kind of govt will exist there if a democratic election is called tomorrow? Will such a govt be against western interests? Will the elected govt(if radical islamists are elected) seek to encourage other radical islamists in neighbouring countries? If so what are the repurcussions for the rest of the world? Why do you think Osama wants to bring down the house of Saud?
What is the record of democracies in the middle east? Which only country in the middle east, is the 'closest' to a western style democracy?Israel is the answer. So much for that, eh?
Do the people of the middle east even desire democracy?
OK, lets have it your way. We end up with a radicle govt in Saud. So what is the threat? Is it the oil again?
I am thinking the radicles would want to eat more than just dates for breakfast, lunch and dinner. So they would trade their oil and this time for a fair price and may not use the defacto US $ currency either. Is there a problem with this? Or do we suddenly develop this bleeding sympathy for the people of Saud and have to librate them from thier ill fate?
Quote:
Have you for even a minute considered the repurcussions of islamist radicals having control over the Mecca the holiest of islamic sites?
Funny how you trust Robert Baer's future predictions so much then you must be fair and give equal weight to other views as well.
Quote:
I've been saying all along that its about self-interest...that peace and justice do not figure. How exactly am i in keeping with any agenda?
Agreed, but my point is why cant self interest be achieved by honest and fair means. Why do you imply that oppression of other people is the only means to achieve this for oneself.
Quote:
The citizens would not choose democracy because their culture is more tuned to religious theocracies.
You contradict your self here. You mention at one place that the american way of life is yearned for by all over the globe and then you make such a statement.
So which one is it?
Re Bin Laden, I suggest we drop this thread and start a new one about what he wants because it could take a life of its own. :-)
