Wonder why they hate us? Take a look.
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Posted on: 02-02-07 19:12:37
Since we already broke the clay pot with our arrogance and ignorance (another reason to substantiate... exactly why they hate us)
... no amount of fixing can bring back originality.
The best chance we have is
- apologize to them and admit we came for the oil and it dint work as we planned and that we are sorry and wont do it again ever...
- rebuld iraq for free.
- Give them $360 billion in freebies equivalent to the cost of the war we ravaged on them
- Stay out from meddeling in their political affairs.
Not a sure plan but hell it beats killing another 600, 000 on a charge of another 360 billion......
Yes there will be blood shed but I cant stop that, neither can you or the forces and Lets get rid of the idea about us being there to pacify Shia & Sunni... thats the last thing we are there for. Dont fool your self on that.
The genocide that is occuring now is def not the preoccupation of the west right now either... So your argument is baseless.
Atleast with my plan we have a chance to do a peace keeping effort... ....and that driving you saw in that video.... not a good start for building the peace .... it will give them a reason to hate us"
Quote:
Originally posted by hemzer
The best chance we have is
- apologize to them and admit we came for the oil and it dint work as we planned and that we are sorry and wont do it again ever...
- Stay out from meddeling in their political affairs.
lets suppose we do that
Quote:
Originally posted by hemzer
- rebuld iraq for free.
- Give them $360 billion in freebies equivalent to the cost of the war we ravaged on them
How do we rebuild? Do we place soldiers to guard the facilities which are being rebuilt to protect them from the alqaeda terrorists(the ones who have stoked the civil war taking place right now) ? Wont that make the other iraqis 'hate' us.
Who is to get the 360 billion(you know what?? make it 600 billion)...the sunni or the shia? Amongst the Shia, you want to give the money to the moderate Ayatollah Sistani or his rival the militant Iran linked Sadr(mahdi army)? How are you going to placate the other one?
Incase its the Al-Maliki govt...why will the sunni agree? Why will even the Shia Sadr agree. They are not agreeing right now.
Does this 'plan' include giving the sunni alqaeda some money to agree too? Or does it mean giving it to the iraqi sunnis?
If you give 300 billion to the Sunni and 300 to the Shia(ignoring about the above mentioned logistics)...you think they will work together or are you going to guarantee that they will not further arm themselves and kill each other? Do we have your personal guarantee on any of this? I'm sure you must feel qualified enough to offer such a guarantee in light of your brilliant 'plan' .
Are you also guaranteeing that the Sunni monarchies/dictators(Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, Qatar) etc will not encourage the Sunni to fight(as they have threatened to do incase of a premature US withdrawal). Or perhaps you are guaranteeing that Iran will not encourage the Shia to retain their influence inorder to facilitate their own regional power?
Please keep talking about your 'plan'. Please! Your knowledge of the situation within Iraq and the dynamics of the region is becoming *very* evident with your 'plan'.
. I'd like to hear your solution to the above questions. Maybe it involves giving billions to every one of the players and buy their 'love'. I'm waiting to hear it anyway. Dazzle us further with your knowledge of the place and the geopolitical situation. -----------------------------------------------------------------
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Quote:
How do we rebuild? Do we place soldiers to guard the facilities which are being rebuilt to protect them from the alqaeda terrorists(the ones who have stoked the civil war taking place right now) ? Wont that make the other iraqis 'hate' us.
How do we rebuild.........!
Rebuilding is not just about bricks and motar...
OK, Here is a step by step guide:
Step 1 - Humble ourselves as a nation apologize, confess, repent & rebuild with the right intentions. No one would stop you from doing them a favour. Trust me on this.
Step 2 - Repent for the kind of brutality, death and poverty we have unleashed on them for generations.
Step 3 - Repent for the kind of lies we spouted via the media to paint them as evil and demonic and freedom haters and other blather in order to undermine them as human beings and justify our killings. These things have to change first.
Step 4 - You have to set right many things within us before we can start communicating, helping or rebuilding other nations.
If you start there, you wont hear from Alqueda and neither would there be a reason for them to exist..... but given our way of dealing with them ie: with a sinster plan and a greedy agenda behind it, this wont happen.
So go back to Step 1 from here..... and try again ......till you get it right. We should not wait any longer.
Quote:
Who is to get the 360 billion(you know what?? make it 600 billion)...the sunni or the shia? Amongst the Shia, you want to give the money to the moderate Ayatollah Sistani or his rival the militant Iran linked Sadr(mahdi army)? How are you going to placate the other one?
Incase its the Al-Maliki govt...why will the sunni agree? Why will even the Shia Sadr agree. They are not agreeing right now.
Does this 'plan' include giving the sunni alqaeda some money to agree too? Or does it mean giving it to the iraqi sunnis?
If you give 300 billion to the Sunni and 300 to the Shia(ignoring about the above mentioned logistics)...you think they will work together or are you going to guarantee that they will not further arm themselves and kill each other? Do we have your personal guarantee on any of this? I'm sure you must feel qualified enough to offer such a guarantee in light of your brilliant 'plan' .
Are you also guaranteeing that the Sunni monarchies/dictators(Saudi, Egypt, Jordan, Qatar) etc will not encourage the Sunni to fight(as they have threatened to do incase of a premature US withdrawal). Or perhaps you are guaranteeing that Iran will not encourage the Shia to retain their influence inorder to facilitate their own regional power?
Please keep talking about your 'plan'. Please! Your knowledge of the situation within Iraq and the dynamics of the region is becoming *very* evident with your 'plan'. . I'd like to hear your solution to the above questions. Maybe it involves giving billions to every one of the players and buy their 'love'. I'm waiting to hear it anyway. Dazzle us further with your knowledge of the place and the geopolitical situation.
Wow!
I will give you the credit here. You are well read and imaginitive..... but it is beyond me to understand how you cannot be aware of some simple human traits "compassion, respect & innate helping nature" of humans. I do not understand how your views on people are so narrowly thought out.
Here is where you give your amendments.. there are many organizations that can cut across divides like the ones you mention and help the ones really in need. How about to hospitals, schools, orphanages? Non govermental charities... we can surely come up with more imaginative ways to help if we put our heads together. I do not think we will run short of ideas there.
You seem to have so much creative ideas about justifying western oppression and destruction but when it comes to ideas about helping and respecting ME cultures and values you seem to have a mental block or refuse to hold a positive view. Do YOU have an axe to grind my friend? :-)
Quote:
Originally posted by hemzer
Rebuilding is not just about bricks and motar...
.........................
If you start there, you wont hear from Alqueda and neither would there be a reason for them to exist..... but given our way of dealing with them ie: with a sinster plan and a greedy agenda behind it, this wont happen.
.
LOL. You mean appeasement. Chamberlain tried that with Hitler....but then you wouldn't know that
. Facts are apparently not your forte. You'd rather get on a soapbox by ignoring any political or historical evidence that suggests different.You ponctificate that the west is the only one with agendas. Thats what I call propaganda. Your 'why they hate us' is based on blatant heresay as you have no factual knowledge of either the conditions or the politics of the ME. Neither can your claims for opening this thread be substantiated on the basis of the actual secetarian violence that is hapenning. If they 'hate us' they would be killing 'us' instead of each other.
Quote:
Wow!
I will give you the credit here. You are well read and imaginitive
Thanks. I'm sorry I cannot return the compliment. Your 'plan' nullified those traits as far as you are concerned.
Quote:
..... but it is beyond me to understand how you cannot be aware of some simple human traits \\\"compassion, respect & innate helping nature\\\" of humans. I do not understand how your views on people are so narrowly thought out.
Here is where you give your amendments.. there are many organizations that can cut across divides like the ones you mention and help the ones really in need. How about to hospitals, schools, orphanages? Non govermental charities... we can surely come up with more imaginative ways to help if we put our heads together. I do not think we will run short of ideas there.
Your ignorance is talking again. The hospitals, schools and the colleges are the ones being attacked in the violence(apart from the marketplaces, school/public buses etc). The non govt charities and their staff are amongst the ones who are regularly being intimidated, attacked, killed, etc. The charitable organisations and the civilian infrastructures INCLUDING their religious places is under assault from the warring factions(NOT THE US). Shia and Sunni death squads roam the streets. You cannot undertake any charitable work or rebuilding under such conditions. Thats why most efforts in these directions are currently going to waste.
Your ignorance is appalling. Please, don't let stupidity triumph that by making 'plans' about things you have scant knowledge of. Are you in the habit of going around lecturing about things you are similarly ignorant about? Is it really advisable? How can you expect a meaningful debate when you are so uninformed about your subject? What exactly are you trying to achieve here? Arent you hurting your own cause if you even have any?
If you really cared about the people/cultures/values etc, you would make an effort to be better informed before climbing on that soapbox and grind.
. Thats why I dont think its the people you are concerned about.-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Quote:
Chamberlain tried that with Hitler....
dont confuse your self...Its wasnt the British oppressing Germany..
Quote:
Your ignorance is talking again. The hospitals, schools and the colleges are the ones being attacked in the violence(apart from the marketplaces, school/public buses etc). The non govt charities and their staff are amongst the ones who are regularly being intimidated, attacked, killed, etc. The charitable organisations and the civilian infrastructures INCLUDING their religious places is under assault from the warring factions(NOT THE US). Shia and Sunni death squads roam the streets. You cannot undertake any charitable work or rebuilding under such conditions. Thats why most efforts in these directions are currently going to waste.
Your ignorance is appalling. Please, don't let stupidity triumph that by making 'plans' about things you have scant knowledge of. Are you in the habit of going around lecturing about things you are similarly ignorant about? Is it really advisable? How can you expect a meaningful debate when you are so uninformed about your subject? What exactly are you trying to achieve here? Arent you hurting your own cause if you even have any?
If you really cared about the people/cultures/values etc, you would make an effort to be better informed before climbing on that soapbox and grind. . Thats why I dont think its the people you are concerned about.
You should try the idea from Step 1 again..... till you get what I wrote.
This might also clear your perception a bit http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12095.htm
Can you by any chance give me a reason why a death squad Shia or Sunni would attack a charitable organization that wants to help? Id say given the circumstances we have put them in, they do not trust our intentions. How can we build trust....? You go back to Step 1.
So, Shia and Sunni have fought from times long ago. So why dint we get involved to bring them peace before then? Why did this sudden change of heart occur right after Saddam started to sell his oil in Euros? Can you explain that?
Wernt we a bit wayward when the first thing we did after occupying Iraq was to reverse the currency Iraq sold their oil in to USD, While we according to you we should have been bringing peace to Shias & Sunnis or Iraqis in general?
Quote:
Originally posted by hemzer
You should try the idea from Step 1 again..... till you get what I wrote.
This might also clear your perception a bit http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12095.htm
this will enlighten you too.
LINK
Tinfoil anyone?
Man is that your own site? Who do you get your feeds from...nutcases?
Good to know you are in esteemed company. I think I'm going to put up a site like that too.
So the neocons are orchestrating the shia sunni divide and the suicide bombings to they could be kicked out of power in the congress and most possibly in the next elections? You are getting more ludicrous by the day.
The neo-con problem was that they were stupid and arrogant enough to think Iraqis are going to forget age old divides and flock under democracy, once an opressive(if effective) dictator was removed. Not the tin-foil madness you and your fellow conspiracy theorists state.
Listen before you continue on your stupidity...please read ATLEAST your OWN LINKS.
Besides being dated(written in april 2006) they say(amongst other inventive and unsubstantiable ramblings):
"The strategy for inciting civil war has never changed. If the United States really wanted to establish security in Iraq they would have increased the number of troops on the ground. Instead, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld has convinced the White House that we are fighting “a new kind of war” that requires massive counterinsurgency operations papered over by daily infusions of propaganda."
Little did the conspiracy theorists know that in 2007 Bush IS asking for more troops to be sent there....and Rumsfeld has been pushed out of office. So tell your friends to write a new premise for that. How all this was another neo-con game for Rumsfeld and his master Bush to fool the iraqi populace into joining scientology and worship Tom Cruise the neo-con sith lord.
Until that time please do not post dated links that you have not taken the trouble to read yourself and thus nix your own arguments. You are destroying any shred of credibility you may have remaining. Enlightening indeed
. Sure does explain your 'plan'. BTW: your 'plan' would have no chance at working if the conspiracy theory in your link was true. Why did you put it forth?...further proof that you just came upon that link and in your eagerness to defend your ignorance...then posted the same without reading it. Tsk,tsk...Hemzer, just let it go...you are digging your hole deeper with every post on this thread. -----------------------------------------------------------------
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