Naive question


Jump to Page:
< Previous  [ 1 ]  [ 2 ]  [ 3 ]  [ 4 ]  [ 5 ]  [ 6 ]  [ 7 ]  [ 8 ]  [ 9 ]  [ 10 ]    Next >



jake3d   
Member since: Sep 03
Posts: 2962
Location: Montreal

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 14-05-04 10:09:09

An average person's thinking is heavily influenced and dictated by the circumstances and the time he/she lives in. To rise above this is the sign of extraordinary men. When Nazism and facism were taking hold in Europe and the ideology of establishing supremacy by force was so prevalent, here was a frail man who stood above it all and preached the message of a non-violent struggle for rights. He also changed the course of history for his people and across 3 continents.
1)Asia: By empowering the weak and hungry to be part of the freedom struggle and procure freedom.
2) America: by influencing extraordinary individuals like dr.king
3) Africa: influencing extraordinary individuals like Nelson Mandela.

Any real or percieved inability pales in comparision to the mans achievements.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Recommended Services- Servicedomino.com
http://www.servicedomino.com


Chris   
Member since: Feb 04
Posts: 148
Location: SoMeWheRe iN aSia

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 14-05-04 20:14:09

It is interesting how eloquent people become when speaking of Gandhi. thank you for the enlightening comments. Thank you bluelobster, jake, et al.

Then let me ask this unusual question: If Gandhi were alive today, if he were here with us now... Could he solve the India/Pakistan rift? How would he do it? He was absolutely convinced of the power of passive resistance and PEACEFUL struggle. how could he use those tools to end the schism?

i'm interested in hearing your responses to this one.



Chris   
Member since: Feb 04
Posts: 148
Location: SoMeWheRe iN aSia

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 14-05-04 20:16:25

your comments are interesting, Chor_Per_Mor, though a tad pessimistic. what is your background?



jake3d   
Member since: Sep 03
Posts: 2962
Location: Montreal

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 14-05-04 21:48:50

Quote:
Orginally posted by Chris

Then let me ask this unusual question: If Gandhi were alive today, if he were here with us now... Could he solve the India/Pakistan rift? How would he do it? He was absolutely convinced of the power of passive resistance and PEACEFUL struggle. how could he use those tools to end the schism?

i'm interested in hearing your responses to this one.



The rift that you talk about is mostly engineered by vested interests, both internal(both countries) and external. It will continue to be exploited. Gandhis methods are more effective against injustices such as colonial oppression, civil liberties and aparthied. I'm not sure it would work as far as settling bilateral disputes are concerned..especially in the current atmosphere.

On the other hand if we really wanted to solve the problem all it would take is for people from both countries to simply follow the message that he preached(easier said than done :D . The message is way more relevant than the messenger. You have to actually read his ideas to know the depth of the man
"I would not like to live in this world if it is not to be one world."- Gandhi

Some of his thoughts- see the section on international peace.
http://www.mkgandhi.org/amabrothers/amabrothers.htm


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Recommended Services- Servicedomino.com
http://www.servicedomino.com


Ottawa_Nerd   
Member since: Jan 04
Posts: 1754
Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 15-05-04 03:40:23

Quote:
Orginally posted by Mishtar India
Chris , the world today lacks a leader ...the stalwarts of mid 20th century are no where to be seen ...



MI, I would beg to differ. The world has indeed seen a leader like Dr. Nelson Mandela in the last century who, IMO, is an icon and will soon become a legend.

Chris, Gandhi was not a Mahatma. Instead he was a shrewd politician. No one in the Congress party was able to see through his shredness but for one person.. Need I remind folks who that person was :D . (one more person by the name of Sir Winston Churchill saw right through him..."half naked fakir" )

The world sees the greatness of Gandhi because the British ruled over India. They were self-serving moralistic hypocrites and did not want to harm their global image. This was exploited by Gandhi to the hilt. Nothing more nothing less.
Imagine a ruler like Hitler instead of the British and maybe, we all would have never been here posting on this forum ! I remember reading somewhere that when the world press asked him abt WW2, he said that he believed in non-violenece and if the Jews were being perecuted by Hitler then they should readily go and fall before Hitler for more pain (aka his Satyagraha principles) !!! I bet you have never read this anywhere. You never will as these small facts are hidden away from society.

As BL has stated it has become a fad to criticize Gandhi ... Well if thats the truth then so be it ! For more than 50 years ppl have been exposed to only one facet of Gandhi's idealogy. As years go by, people will find more and more stuff abt him and they will know what he was all about.

I will give you a few specific examples :-
1.) Gandhi was a casteist (even though he quite ritualistically preached that Harijans (sic!) were the gift of god !)

2.) He opposed family planning (just like you-know-who-oppose-that.. How ? WEll read the documents concerning the interactions between Rabindranath Tagore and Gandhi and you will find out what I am talking abt)

3.) His bias for the Muslims and his I-take-you-for-granted attitude towards Hindus. E.g., Noakhali, Calcutta ! Do you guys know that he even wanted to accede to Jinnah's persuasion to give Calcutta to Pakistan ! It took the adamant attitude of Patel to stop that

I would say, in summary, that I dislike him for his political preferences and admire him for some of his social causes ! And of cos, he he not walked this earth, I would not have the pleasure of a wonderful DVD by Columbia Tristar :D :D


-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Aur Vaise Bhi, Sharafat ki jab kapde utarti hai, sabse zyaada mazaa shareefon ko hi aati hai"....(From The Dirty Picture)

Warning !! SCAM ALERT !!
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=4169 & http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=1379
This is a Useful Health related Tip
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=3865
Please visit
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php for some interesting Information ! (Especially 009.005 )


BlueLobster   
Member since: Oct 02
Posts: 3409
Location: Mississauga

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 15-05-04 08:00:38

Quote:
Orginally posted by Ottawa_Nerd

Chris, Gandhi was not a Mahatma. Instead he was a shrewd politician. No one in the Congress party was able to see through his shredness but for one person.. Need I remind folks who that person was :D . (one more person by the name of Sir Winston Churchill saw right through him..."half naked fakir" )





I don't know many shrewd politicans who would themselves march in the face of a lathi-charge, do you? And how many do you know that live in the barest of environment possible despite the fact that they could easily have lived in the most luxurious of mansions? How about giving me some names here?

Shrewd politicans don't play by principles, they generate them every morning as per the demands of the day. Someone who pursues his ideology steadfastly despite all odds is hardly a politician, let alone a shrewd one. You should know that living in Ottawa. :)

And can you elaborate a bit more on the casteist part before I respond? Don't forget while doing so that even the greatest of minds are still a function of the era they live in.

I don't believe in hero-worship and I don't subscribe to any suggestion that Gandhi is beyond scrutiny. His flaws remind us that he was human after all. Albeit with some very superhuman qualities like I said before.

And Chris, to answer your question, I don't think Gandhi would have been able to resolve the Indo/Pak rift. Many reasons for that, I will try to elaborate at a more leisurely time.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Are you there?


jake3d   
Member since: Sep 03
Posts: 2962
Location: Montreal

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 15-05-04 09:55:08

Quote:
Orginally posted by Ottawa_Nerd

2.) He opposed family planning (just like you-know-who-oppose-that.. How ? WEll read the documents concerning the interactions between Rabindranath Tagore and Gandhi and you will find out what I am talking abt)





People make the mistake of viewing him through the lens of a politician...which he simply was not! He would rather cede land than have one person dead...of course in reality our world does not work like that. His principles are sound for those who march to a different beat. For the rest of us mortals....it is not....and the inability to factor that into his actions may have been his greatest failing as a politician(who as BL said are often slave to the court of public opinion).

I personally consider those views(ottawa nerd) a liberal interpretation of reality :D . Of course anyone inclined to believe in them is very entitled to do so. The above point(quoted) in particular amuses me. Gandhi was not against family planning at all. He always advocated natural family planning(I do not hold it feasible for ordinary people).

And you-know-who else :D holds that opinion? The pope, most orthodox roman catholics etc to name a few. Yes they are called immpractical people too.

http://catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=6&art_id=22426

Now I do not personally think these methods are sustainable for a majority of us (including yours truly...a non-practising roman catholic:) ) . However, just because we cannot attain the required mental faculties to achieve self-restraint...does not make it wrong. It just makes it wrong for us at the current time.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Recommended Services- Servicedomino.com
http://www.servicedomino.com



Discussions similar to: Naive question

Topic Forum Views Replies
For about freindship ... few word
Have Fun! 1645 3
winner..
Life 1064 3
Mahatma stands tall in Canada
News and Events 1039 0
A couple of suggestions for GG
Feedback and Comments 1915 4
Suggestions when posting messages
Feedback and Comments 2093 6
Average Salaries?
Jobs 1667 2
Town House Condomonium Vs High rise condo
Real Estate & Mortgages 2335 2
Tax question......pls help
Accounting and Taxation 1903 6
FOR WANNABE IMMIGRANTS ONLY
Life 1692 2
Recycle bin
Filmi Gupshup 1570 0
Inanimate things around us also have genders?
Have Fun! 1264 1
Family Class-Low Income Cut-off
Family Class 1207 1
Student loans in Canada
Study 1643 3
CMA - fast track program
Study 2703 5
Backpacking in Europe ( 1 2 3 4 )
General 5678 24
Dell Tech Support Hold Message
Our Native Country! 1432 4
$85 ticket from municipality officer ( 1 2 3 )
Driving 5082 17
Relief to Indian-American community as passport rules are changed
Our Native Country! 2071 4
IMPORTANT: HST Petition
Accounting and Taxation 1581 1
KITNA JHOOTH BOLTA HAI ! ( 1 2 )
General 2326 9
Think +ve, relieve stress tips....
General 1149 5
Any pointers on planning an Europe trip ( 1 2 3 )
Life 4442 20
A question for Statistics experts
General 931 3
How to make money in Canada ? ( 1 2 3 ... Last )
Jobs 9017 44
Moving to waterloo ( 1 2 3 )
Moving Soon 3305 17
 


Share:
















Advertise Contact Us Privacy Policy and Terms of Usage FAQ
Canadian Desi
© 2001 Marg eSolutions


Site designed, developed and maintained by Marg eSolutions Inc.