Posted on: 14-09-04 20:55:19
As I continue to learn everyday about how Canadian firms work , I learnt something about recruiting in the last few weeks which surprised me a great deal. And that is the POWER OF REFERENCES in Canada.
We all talk about Canadian Experience which every employer looks for in Canada. We have always wondered why US experience is not sought by American companies whereas Canadian experience is almost a prerequisite for Candian jobs.
Here is my take on it .What do the employers look for with Canadian experience? and What if a jobseeker say "yes" to Canadian experience? ...the response to any "yes" answer is, where did you get it and is there a Reference whom we can contact? And then comes the power of References.
The current jobmarket conditions and the large pool of skilled talent available in the jobmarket is forcing Employers to seek a way to zero down the number of candidates from many to 1 or 2. And sure shot way to zero down on candidates is to look for canadian references. Surely enough all new immigrants or immigrants without known people in the industry get dropped out. If the Canadian unemployment rate was closer to the US rate of about 4.5%, no one would ever ask for Canadian experience.When jobseekers are in short supply , the employers would take anyone who fits the job profile and the so called Canadian experience will lose its value. I think it is just a supply and demand thing.
I learnt about this when we had to fill in 2 positions in our project team. I was given a protocol to follow for recruiting . First, seek candidates within the company , 2nd get candidates referred from those within the company and 3rd get resumes from the HR dept. First position got filled with a referral from a higher up . We got to interview the candidate alright but when the candidates is referred by the senior VP, he is rarely turned down, whether we like it or not.
For 2nd position we got some selected resumes from the HR dept,( HR interviews and shortlists first from a larger pool ), out of 5 resumes 2 were desis , and i am glad that one desi made it . He was the best of the lot,and what worked in his favor was the references he could bring with his resume. We were supposed to follow up and take feedback from every reference provided.
And then I realized the power of References in Canada.
Now the question which all new immigrants face is , how to get an industry reference?
For a new immigrant it is very hard to provide a canadian job reference,but all new immigrants can always develop contacts within the industry . How? by attending indusrty seminars and stepping up on networking within the indusrty . Getting active and in their professional organizations and develop contacts within the industry. It would be nice if you all can suggest some new innovative ways in which people can develop industry references without a job reference, which they can use in their resume ?
Can CD members act as personal references for new jobseekers ?
This is where i feel CD and its members can play another vital role by getting to know new immigrants well, and then act as their personal references for their resumes, and when we get a call from prospective employer, we can then provide the critical valueable input to help the jobseeker.
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What can be imagined, can be achieved.
Mishtar India,
Nice post. I do agree that references have a vital role in the selection / rejection process. In your post you have also suggested that some members of CD could actually act as references for new immigrants. In my opinion, we should segregate references into
1) Personal reference &
2) Professional reference.
If a senior CD member who knows a new immigrant well, gives a reference for him, it will be a personal reference. But how will it help him professionally ? Will he get a job because of a personal reference ?
Professional reference helps in getting jobs. Eg: When my former boss gives a good reference about me in terms of attitude, performance, communication skills, crisis management skills, ability to lead a team etc, it amounts to a professional reference. This helps my prospective employer to take a call on recruiting me.
We could definitely sort out this Personal and Professional reference issue. It would be great if a personal reference would help me get a job in Canada.
Ayaskant.
Quote:
Orginally posted by Mishtar India
As I continue to learn everyday about how Canadian firms work , I learnt something about recruiting in the last few weeks which surprised me a great deal. And that is the POWER OF REFERENCES in Canada.
We all talk about Canadian Experience which every employer looks for in Canada. We have always wondered why US experience is not sought by American companies whereas Canadian experience is almost a prerequisite for Candian jobs.
Here is my take on it .What do the employers look for with Canadian experience? and What if a jobseeker say \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"yes\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" to Canadian experience? ...the response to any \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"yes\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" answer is, where did you get it and is there a Reference whom we can contact? And then comes the power of References.
The current jobmarket conditions and the large pool of skilled talent available in the jobmarket is forcing Employers to seek a way to zero down the number of candidates from many to 1 or 2. And sure shot way to zero down on candidates is to look for canadian references. Surely enough all new immigrants or immigrants without known people in the industry get dropped out. If the Canadian unemployment rate was closer to the US rate of about 4.5%, no one would ever ask for Canadian experience.When jobseekers are in short supply , the employers would take anyone who fits the job profile and the so called Canadian experience will lose its value. I think it is just a supply and demand thing.
I learnt about this when we had to fill in 2 positions in our project team. I was given a protocol to follow for recruiting . First, seek candidates within the company , 2nd get candidates referred from those within the company and 3rd get resumes from the HR dept. First position got filled with a referral from a higher up . We got to interview the candidate alright but when the candidates is referred by the senior VP, he is rarely turned down, whether we like it or not.
For 2nd position we got some selected resumes from the HR dept,( HR interviews and shortlists first from a larger pool ), out of 5 resumes 2 were desis , and i am glad that one desi made it . He was the best of the lot,and what worked in his favor was the references he could bring with his resume. We were supposed to follow up and take feedback from every reference provided.
And then I realized the power of References in Canada.
Now the question which all new immigrants face is , how to get an industry reference?
For a new immigrant it is very hard to provide a canadian job reference,but all new immigrants can always develop contacts within the industry . How? by attending indusrty seminars and stepping up on networking within the indusrty . Getting active and in their professional organizations and develop contacts within the industry. It would be nice if you all can suggest some new innovative ways in which people can develop industry references without a job reference, which they can use in their resume ?
Can CD members act as personal references for new jobseekers ?
This is where i feel CD and its members can play another vital role by getting to know new immigrants well, and then act as their personal references for their resumes, and when we get a call from prospective employer, we can then provide the critical valueable input to help the jobseeker.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Success
To laugh often and much;
To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children;
To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends;
To appreciate beauty, to find the best in others;
To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition;
To know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived.
This is to have succeeded. Bessie Stanley
In my opinion, there lies a basic difference between a professional reference and a personal one.
A personal reference would be valid normally only when you are applying for a job where the business is owned by someone from your own community - a desi giving a personal reference to another desi for a desi applicant, or an irani giving a personal reference to another irani for an iranian applicant. Such references are good for jobs which require more than simple technical knowledge - honesty, integrity, trustworthiness, or even capabiltiy of performing a job for which one is not trained but there is an opportunity. I had got my first regular job in Canada thru one such reference - and though I am professional accountant, my job was pure marketing/sales and new products development, a regular salaried job plus commissions/performance bonus, with no relation to accounts/banking/finance.
Professional references are more confined to technical knowledge and basic soft skills like team work and willingness to take on responsibilites - and at times, simply record of attendence.
It is a good idea to develop something on the lines MI has suggested, but it will require two things:
1. A frequent meeting by a new/exisiting immigrant with the CD member who might be helpful in providing reference. No established CD member will be able to provide a reference only by having known a person thru the web.
2. The reference should be required in fact - no use putting it down on your list of references if the prospective employer does not need personal references.
I would rather suggest an extension to this idea. We should find some Desi in business or profession, or even in jobs and request them to provide some working experience either on a voluntary basis, or at a nominal wages to such job hunters. This would provide the employer an extra hand at a no/low cost, and the applicant a 'Canadian Experience' along with a solid reference.
Infact I am working on this co-op kind of an idea right now, and hope to be able to put up a post before the end of September.
Chandresh
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Chandresh
Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!
Your previous work references out of canada help a great deal too. I know of many of my folks and personally my husband when he first intiated a job search with no canadian experience but references from back in dubai, they actually called the references in dubai.
Quote:
Orginally posted by Mishtar India
As I continue to learn everyday about how Canadian firms work , I learnt something about recruiting in the last few weeks which surprised me a great deal. And that is the POWER OF REFERENCES in Canada.
We all talk about Canadian Experience which every employer looks for in Canada. We have always wondered why US experience is not sought by American companies whereas Canadian experience is almost a prerequisite for Candian jobs.
Here is my take on it .What do the employers look for with Canadian experience? and What if a jobseeker say "yes" to Canadian experience? ...the response to any "yes" answer is, where did you get it and is there a Reference whom we can contact? And then comes the power of References.
The current jobmarket conditions and the large pool of skilled talent available in the jobmarket is forcing Employers to seek a way to zero down the number of candidates from many to 1 or 2. And sure shot way to zero down on candidates is to look for canadian references. Surely enough all new immigrants or immigrants without known people in the industry get dropped out. If the Canadian unemployment rate was closer to the US rate of about 4.5%, no one would ever ask for Canadian experience.When jobseekers are in short supply , the employers would take anyone who fits the job profile and the so called Canadian experience will lose its value. I think it is just a supply and demand thing.
I learnt about this when we had to fill in 2 positions in our project team. I was given a protocol to follow for recruiting . First, seek candidates within the company , 2nd get candidates referred from those within the company and 3rd get resumes from the HR dept. First position got filled with a referral from a higher up . We got to interview the candidate alright but when the candidates is referred by the senior VP, he is rarely turned down, whether we like it or not.
For 2nd position we got some selected resumes from the HR dept,( HR interviews and shortlists first from a larger pool ), out of 5 resumes 2 were desis , and i am glad that one desi made it . He was the best of the lot,and what worked in his favor was the references he could bring with his resume. We were supposed to follow up and take feedback from every reference provided.
And then I realized the power of References in Canada.
Now the question which all new immigrants face is , how to get an industry reference?
For a new immigrant it is very hard to provide a canadian job reference,but all new immigrants can always develop contacts within the industry . How? by attending indusrty seminars and stepping up on networking within the indusrty . Getting active and in their professional organizations and develop contacts within the industry. It would be nice if you all can suggest some new innovative ways in which people can develop industry references without a job reference, which they can use in their resume ?
Can CD members act as personal references for new jobseekers ?
This is where i feel CD and its members can play another vital role by getting to know new immigrants well, and then act as their personal references for their resumes, and when we get a call from prospective employer, we can then provide the critical valueable input to help the jobseeker.
References are very common in USA too. It works like the Indian "Jugar" here.
My frist two projects in USA ware normal..i.e. I got interviewed and selected.
The 3rd project I got in using the above method. But within that company I moved 3 times to different projects Just by getting reffered to by my Project manager. One of them was my placement in the Toronto Office. All she did was pickup the phone and called the Manager of that project. Since he was already in USA he Just came down to my room for 5 minutes and Just said "Since you are highly recommended by your project manager.....". Done. thanks to my manager in USA I had a very high paying Job in Toronto, since i was being paid in US$.
So Yes references mean everything here. And at this pointin time I have none.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
ccherryl,
This is too good to be true. You mean if I get shortlisted for a job after landing in Canada, the references given by my former Superiors ( Bosses ) in India will be considered ? And will they actually call my Superiors under whom I have worked in India to do a reference check ? 
If yes, then a lot of new immigrants would benefit. Please clarify.
Ayaskant.
==============================================
Your previous work references out of canada help a great deal too. I know of many of my folks and personally my husband when he first intiated a job search with no canadian experience but references from back in dubai, they actually called the references in dubai.
==============================================
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
References are very common in USA too. It works like the Indian \"Jugar\" here.
My frist two projects in USA ware normal..i.e. I got interviewed and selected.
The 3rd project I got in using the above method. But within that company I moved 3 times to different projects Just by getting reffered to by my Project manager. One of them was my placement in the Toronto Office. All she did was pickup the phone and called the Manager of that project. Since he was already in USA he Just came down to my room for 5 minutes and Just said \"Since you are highly recommended by your project manager.....\". Done.
So Yes references mean everything here. And at this pointin time I have none.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Success
To laugh often and much;
To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children;
To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends;
To appreciate beauty, to find the best in others;
To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition;
To know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived.
This is to have succeeded. Bessie Stanley
Ayaskant,
Yes they do for sure depending from company to company and your profile. They may even call all of your last three employers. So can't fake and even education background, they get that checked too. "background verification"
Quote:
Orginally posted by ayaskant
ccherryl,
This is too good to be true. You mean if I get shortlisted for a job after landing in Canada, the references given by my former Superiors ( Bosses ) in India will be considered ? And will they actually call my Superiors under whom I have worked in India to do a reference check ?
Ayaskant.
==============================================
Your previous work references out of canada help a great deal too. I know of many of my folks and personally my husband when he first intiated a job search with no canadian experience but references from back in dubai, they actually called the references in dubai.
==============================================
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
References are very common in USA too. It works like the Indian \"Jugar\" here.
My frist two projects in USA ware normal..i.e. I got interviewed and selected.
The 3rd project I got in using the above method. But within that company I moved 3 times to different projects Just by getting reffered to by my Project manager. One of them was my placement in the Toronto Office. All she did was pickup the phone and called the Manager of that project. Since he was already in USA he Just came down to my room for 5 minutes and Just said \"Since you are highly recommended by your project manager.....\". Done.
So Yes references mean everything here. And at this pointin time I have none.
