WHY ARE THE DESIS ALWAYS COMPLAINING AND GRIPING (READ "WHY DON'T THEY PACK THEI
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Posted on: 16-11-04 13:24:45
It is 10 times that of India.
11 Canada $ 29,800 2003 est.
156 India $ 2,900 2003 est.
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You know you are a desi when ........ You spew forth the virtues of India, but don't want to live there...............You've never had a tanning salon membership
Guys even after a relook I dnt get the per capita argument.
If India s GDP is USD 600 does it mean every1 gets USD 600 only .There are ppl who r getting 20 times that and ppl getting 1/10th of that as well .So GDP doesnt show correct figures.
Scenario
No. of ppl = 10
Composition rich : poor :: 3:7
(assume 1 rich s income - 3 times the poor's)
GDP (Income) = 10,000/-
01 rich gets (10000/16)*3 = 48
01 poor gets (10000/16)*1 = 16
Obviously when we talk in terms of Indian population the no. of ppl in middle class and high class is lower than ppl in the loer class .So that effectively means that ata consevative estimate also ppl having a per capita income of 4*$600 wud be high (those having <$600wud b higher)
Manasvi .
PS : Look @ my figures I have taken only 15% .
Quote:
Orginally posted by Manasvi
Obviously when we talk in terms of Indian population the no. of ppl in middle class and high class is lower than ppl in the loer class .
PS : Look @ my figures I have taken only 15% .
According to the UN's figures 80% of the Indian population earn less than $2 per day.
Looking at that statistic the other way, only 20% of the population earns more than $2 per day. If you want to believe that out of this 20%, 15% have liquid assets in excess of Rs 750k, good for you!
As I see it though, your assumptions are wrong!
Crenshaw,
As I have said earlier, I have always admired your ability to research on the net and provide facts and figures, and also your sharp observations about postings by various members.
However, digressing (is that a correct word? forgive me if it is not) from the topic, why is it that you give such great importance to all US sources for information and figures and statistics and surveys etc? Yes, on paper, there is nothing to refute them, but most of us in this world have a feeling that such statistics in general are not always to be relied on.
In my opinion, these surveys are biased towards showing North America as the best in the world. They always try to show - whether by stats, or by media or by films that countries like India are unimaginable to live in. Well each country has its negetive and positive points, but they only highlight the negetive ones, and since their media is so powerful, they make people believe that rest of the world is a jungle and not worth living in. When they survey for some specific things, they somehow tend to not include the countries which are far better than them just because their position in the list will go down a lot. You might be able to do a research but I have never come across showing surveys for family values, human values, and many other non-material things in life.
Let's take example of Medical care - UN says that Canada is perhaps the best (or amongst the top) as claimed by Canadian immigration. Having lived in Singapore and Middle East, I personally find those places many-fold better in health care than Canada, not only for the people who can afford it, but also for the persons who cannot. And for persons who have toiled hard all their lives to make it rich, can easily afford the best medical attention in such countries, but not here in Canada.
The above is just an example. I know that systems in countries like India in not advanced or not in place to collect so much statistics, and so the only place to go is UN or North American data collection firms - but that does not mean that such statistics should overshadow the personal experiences of human beings collectively.
So, to come back to the figures you guys were discussing - I do not deny the figure of US$ 600, but I also know that I come from a lower middle class family and my extended family would have atleast more than 50 persons whose net worth would be more than 7.5 lakhs. If you extrapolate that figure (which is not a survey but actual data from my personal knowledge and experience), you could get an indication of no. of persons in India who can afford to come to Canada.
Just a thought - nothing related to figures, and nothing personal.
Chandresh
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Chandresh
Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
In my opinion, these surveys are biased towards showing North America as the best in the world. They always try to show - whether by stats, or by media or by films that countries like India are unimaginable to live in. Well each country has its negetive and positive points, but they only highlight the negetive ones, and since their media is so powerful, they make people believe that rest of the world is a jungle and not worth living in. When they survey for some specific things, they somehow tend to not include the countries which are far better than them just because their position in the list will go down a lot. You might be able to do a research but I have never come across showing surveys for family values, human values, and many other non-material things in life.
This is just to provide overview of how American companies view India.
I worked with a multinational in India HQ at Banglore. This company required American to reside as the head or CEO of the region. That person had a huge bunglow to himself with all facilities, probably more facilities than what he would be getting in US (household help ofcourse which I doubt he had in US) and over his salary he was paid Hardship allowance for being in India. This was not a perk but company rule for some of the asian countries. What is so hard to live in India esp Banglore.
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Try overtaking child's imagination
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
snip
why is it that you give such great importance to all US sources for information and figures and statistics and surveys etc? Yes, on paper, there is nothing to refute them, but most of us in this world have a feeling that such statistics in general are not always to be relied on.
The statistics that I quoted are from the UN. The UN does not necessarily = North America. Do most people in the world consider the UN statistics to be unreliable?
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
In my opinion, these surveys are biased towards showing North America as the best in the world. They always try to show - whether by stats, or by media or by films that countries like India are unimaginable to live in. Well each country has its negetive and positive points, but they only highlight the negetive ones, and since their media is so powerful, they make people believe that rest of the world is a jungle and not worth living in.
I wouldn’t agree. By the same token, they talk about India today as being an emerging economic power, would you discount that as well?
When looking at life in India from a western perspective, India’s infrastructure just seems “chaotic” (for want of a better word) and the media does reflect that perception. While there are exceptions, I do believe that they also give credit to countries like India and China where it is due.
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
When they survey for some specific things, they somehow tend to not include the countries which are far better than them just because their position in the list will go down a lot.
The reference that you are making is to North America. However, in the study from which I picked up the “80%” number, the top 3 countries are Norway, Sweden and Australia. Neither of the North American countries is in the top 3 which would contradict your statement that “they do not include countries whichh are far better than them just because their position in the list will go down a lot”.
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
You might be able to do a research but I have never come across showing surveys for family values, human values, and many other non-material things in life.
How would you quantify such studies of non material things in life?. Besides, before getting onto a high horse as regards “Indian family values”, do spare a thought for the pressures that ‘globalization’ brings to the larger cities in India now. Evidently things are a lot different from the time that you or I left India.
Also while talking about Indian family values, do spare a thought for things like dowry deaths and female infanticide / female foeticide. Would those factors also need to be taken into consideration while considering “family values” or other "non-material things in life"?
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
Let's take example of Medical care - UN says that Canada is perhaps the best (or amongst the top) as claimed by Canadian immigration. Having lived in Singapore and Middle East, I personally find those places many-fold better in health care than Canada, not only for the people who can afford it, but also for the persons who cannot. And for persons who have toiled hard all their lives to make it rich, can easily afford the best medical attention in such countries, but not here in Canada.
Don’t know where you saw Canada claiming that their medical care is the best in the world. The Canadians are ever willing to admit that they have problems in their medical care. At the same time, many in the US look to Canada as having a tremendous medical care system, it’s a matter of perception.
My own perception is that while a lot of Indian doctors may have superior skills, the quality of infrastructure in India, leaves a lot to be desired.
A lot of Indians who can afford it (including many in my immediate family) opt to travel to the US whenever they require major surgery! I don’t see things happening the other way around. As far as the Middle East is concerned, many Arabs actually do travel either to India or to the US for medical care!
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
The above is just an example. I know that systems in countries like India in not advanced or not in place to collect so much statistics, and so the only place to go is UN or North American data collection firms - but that does not mean that such statistics should overshadow the personal experiences of human beings collectively.
However, a line needs to be drawn. Personal experiences should not take the form of vague ad-hoc ‘statistics’.
This entire discussion arose in connection with a statement that said that people who immigrate to Canada are average people who have nowhere to go in life and therefore get to Canada.
I believe that is a sweeping generalization which was inappropriate.
Quote:
Orginally posted by chandresh
So, to come back to the figures you guys were discussing - I do not deny the figure of US$ 600, but I also know that I come from a lower middle class family and my extended family would have atleast more than 50 persons whose net worth would be more than 7.5 lakhs.
snip
Well, if several members of your family have net worth of more than Rs 750k, maybe you should revisit that assumption that they are “lower middle class”. The UN statistics still say that 80% of the Indian population earns less than $2 per day…….
Top 20% of Indians having less than Rs 7.5 lacs !!
Since I have been in India for > than a quarter I denounce these figures as frivolous whatever may be the source . Reminds me of the Americans attacking Iraq with found statistics of WMD ........
Some interesting knowledge I d like 2 share . Wish all 2 read this link and expect Crenshaw 2 counter this .BTW where s the link for the UN Stats ??
http://www.indiaonestop.com/middleclassesindia.htm
Quote:
The upper middle class comprises an estimated 40 million people. They have annual incomes of US$600,000 each in terms of Purchasing Power Parity (PPP).
The middle middle class comprises an estimated 150 million people, each with PPP incomes of US$20,000 per year each.
The lower middle class comprises an estimated 110 million people. An estimate of their annual income is not available, but they are mostly the relatively affluent people in the rural areas of India.
The middle classes ON THE WHOLE (i.e. upper middle + middle middle + lower middle classes) is expected to grow by 5 to 10 percent annually.
I just quoted 15 million That was conservative !.
I maintain that those ppl in India who are on the top rung of the ladder or expect 2 reach that place in business or job never consider the Canadian option . How many IIT / IIM grads have u found hunting for jobs in GTA whereas u can find them comfortably in the US or around the world .Its the average Indian professional who takes the dive !!! How many guys from Infosys / Wipro /Oracle india / PWC/ArthurAndrsen/HLL/P&G /Mc Kinsey do u find taking the Canadian PR ????
Manasvi .
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