I know I have asked this before and some of you did answer, especially pratickm, but I am afraid I am still confused.
There are a few things I don't seem to understand about the whole process of getting immigration on H1b visa.
I am told that the number of H1 visas that will be given is limited to a maximum of 65,000 for the coming year.
Is it true that applications, or petitions as they call it for H1, can be filed with the USCIS at any time?
When they talk about a Financial Year, what exactly does it mean? For example when they said in a press release on October 1 2004, "that it has received enough H-1B petitions to meet the congressionally-mandated cap for fiscal year 2005.', what did it exactly mean?
What is this concept of a "fiscal year" for H1b petitions?
If the "FY" is from October to Sept, then would FY2006 be from Oct 1, 2005 to Sep 30, 2006?
If a petition is filed in say, April 2005, when is the earliest it can get approved? If the answer is "not before 1st October", why not? Does it mean that all petitions are allowed to accumulate and opened for consideration only in October? Are they opened in sequence and approved accoding to the date of filing?
If the process for approval starts only 1st October, wouldn't it take an awful long time to approve 65,000 petitions? Are there any specific reasons that they wait till the start of a FY to begin the process of approval?
Since there is a cap on the number of petitions that can be approved in any FY, what criteria is used to select or reject a petition? If there are two petitions equal in every way except that they are from different employers, and approving both would exceed the cap, what criteria would be used to select one and reject the other? Is it on a first come first served basis? If petition 'A' is filed in the month of May 2005, and 'B' in June 2005, and both are equal in all respects except the employer being different, does 'A' have a better chance of approval then 'B'?
Thanks.
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Diogenes
====================
The Cynic
DtC --
Quote:Yes.
Orginally posted by DiogenestheCynic
Is it true that applications, or petitions as they call it for H1, can be filed with the USCIS at any time?
Quote:It means that there are 65,000 or more H-1B petitions already in the pipeline.
When they talk about a Financial Year, what exactly does it mean? For example when they said in a press release on October 1 2004, "that it has received enough H-1B petitions to meet the congressionally-mandated cap for fiscal year 2005.', what did it exactly mean?
Therefore, unless a huge number of them are rejected, any new petitions filed will not be approved under the 2005 cap, but they will fall under the 2006 cap.
However, there are a certain number of H-1B petitions that have been "reserved" for certain countries.
Towards the end of the fiscal year, if a lot of those are still unused (as happened last year), then those reserved petitions are freed up for general use and some of the backlogged ones get approved.
Quote:October 1st to September 30th of next year.
What is this concept of a "fiscal year" for H1b petitions?
Quote:Yep.
If the "FY" is from October to Sept, then would FY2006 be from Oct 1, 2005 to Sep 30, 2006?
Quote:It depends on the available quota.
If a petition is filed in say, April 2005, when is the earliest it can get approved? If the answer is "not before 1st October", why not?
If the cap has already been reached, then the earliest to can be approved is 1st October.
Because the US Congress has mandated that no more than 65,000 foreign workers may enter the country in a particular FY, the US BCIS cannot possibly ignore the US Congress and approve a petition.
Once a petition is approved, the foreign national can apply for a visa at a foreign consulate and enter the country, which would go against the will of the Congress - and we can't have that, can we
However, if the cap has not been reached (as was the case for several years between 2001 - 2004), then an H-1B can be issued any time of the year.
Quote:Yes.
Does it mean that all petitions are allowed to accumulate and opened for consideration only in October?
Quote:Yes to the first part and No to the second.
Are they opened in sequence and approved accoding to the date of filing?
They start processing in the order received, but the approval depends on other factors - such as how simple or complicated a case is, the load on the case processing officer working on that case, any incomplete information, etc.
Also, certain H-1B sponsoring employers are on a sort of "watch" list, therefore any applications from them are scrutinized more and thus take longer to approve.
Quote:They do some preliminary groundwork, but they will not approve a petition prior to 1st October if the cap for the current year has been met.
If the process for approval starts only 1st October, wouldn't it take an awful long time to approve 65,000 petitions? Are there any specific reasons that they wait till the start of a FY to begin the process of approval?
Doing so would be a violation of the writ of US Congress.
And it doesn't take that long for the actual approval process.
I don't think it takes longer than a couple of weeks for a regular, straightforward petition.
So the 65,000th person can expect approval around Feb - Mar maybe.
Quote:First come, first served basis.
Since there is a cap on the number of petitions that can be approved in any FY, what criteria is used to select or reject a petition?
Quote:If approving a petition would exceed the cap, none would be approved.
If there are two petitions equal in every way except that they are from different employers, and approving both would exceed the cap, what criteria would be used to select one and reject the other?
They will be put in the cold storage, waiting for 1st OCtober.
Quote:Yes, if the quota is expected to run out sometime between May 2005 and June 2005, in your example.
If petition 'A' is filed in the month of May 2005, and 'B' in June 2005, and both are equal in all respects except the employer being different, does 'A' have a better chance of approval then 'B'?
However, if A's petition is very complicated and the BCIS has to do a lot of background work and further investigation, then B might win out.
So when A's officer is ready to approve the petition, he/she would find that the quota is over.
He/she would then place the petition in queue for next year (1st Oct. 2005), even though all processing has been completed.
The cap is on the number of petitions actually approved, and not on the number processed.
Hope this answers your questions.
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"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."
-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"
Thanks for your answers pratickm
Ok lets see if I understand any better now.
USCIS declared on Oct 1 2004 that the cap of 65,000 for FY 2005 i.e. Oct1 2004 - Sep 2005, has been exceeded and that they would not accept any further applications for FY2005.
There is a cap of 65,000 H1b visas that can be issued by USICS for the FYOct1 2005 - Sep 2006. Am I correct in that?
Petitions against this cap have been getting filed since Oct 1 2004 and are continuing to filed as we speak. Right?
To my question
Quote:
Does it mean that all petitions are allowed to accumulate and opened for consideration only in October?
You say
Quote:
Orginally posted by pratickm
Yes.
This I assume is because the quote for FY2005 got exhausted on 1st Oct 2004. Check?
To my question:
Quote:
Does it mean that all petitions are allowed to accumulate and opened for consideration only in October?
You have answered
Quote:
Orginally posted by pratickm
Yes.
The question is - Why do they hold on to the petitions until Oct 1? I mean, processing and approving does not necessarily imply that the immigrant can enter rightaway.
To my question
Quote:
Are they opened in sequence and approved accoding to the date of filing?
You say
Quote:
Orginally posted by pratickm
Yes to the first part and No to the second.
They start processing in the order received...
I am confused.
Do you mean that "processing" of individual petitions starts as they are received at the USICS, because earlier you have said that they allow the petitions to pile up and "start" processsing only from Oct 1, though as I have asked earlier I do not see the sense in that.
Quote:
Orginally posted by pratickm
They do some preliminary groundwork, but they will not approve a petition prior to 1st October if the cap for the current year has been met.
Doing so would be a violation of the writ of US Congress.
This is what I don't understand. Approving a petition is not the same as giving a visa. The actual entry itself is controlled by the latter and approving a petition, which is an independent activity, therefore does not appear to be in violation of anything.
To my question:
Quote:
If there are two petitions equal in every way except that they are from different employers, and approving both would exceed the cap, what criteria would be used to select one and reject the other?
Quote:
Orginally posted by pratickm
If approving a petition would exceed the cap, none would be approved.
They will be put in the cold storage, waiting for 1st OCtober.
I am sorry, I should have been more explicit. What I meant was what if the two petitions were competing for the 65,000th slot?
But I guess you have already answered that question when you said that other things being equal, is on "FC-FS" basis. The one that had been received earlier would be approved first.
To my question:
Quote:
If petition 'A' is filed in the month of May 2005, and 'B' in June 2005, and both are equal in all respects except the employer being different, does 'A' have a better chance of approval then 'B'?
Quote:
Orginally posted by pratickm
Yes, if the quota is expected to run out sometime between May 2005 and June 2005, in your example.
I am sorry again if I was not clear. In my example the two petitions are being filed for the 2006 quota.
That the USICS is continuing to accept petitions at this time, does it imply that it has not received 65,000 petitions yet?
OR
Will it continue to accept as many as are coming in regardless. Only after 1st Oct, will they start processing and approving them and stop once 65,000 have been approved?
Does Canada have "reserved" quota as you say? Any idea how much or where t to get that info?
Thanks for all your answers.
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Diogenes
====================
The Cynic
Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)
Posted on: 17-05-05 17:11:08
One exception to the rule...Academic institutions are excluded from the quota.SO if you are a post-doc on (say J1)..you can convert to a H1....However, as with any H1, you have to stick with them for as long as you work!
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DtC --
Quote:You mean for FY 2006?
Orginally posted by DiogenestheCynic
USCIS declared on Oct 1 2004 that the cap of 65,000 for FY 2005 i.e. Oct1 2004 - Sep 2005, has been exceeded and that they would not accept any further applications for FY2005.
There is a cap of 65,000 H1b visas that can be issued by USICS for the FYOct1 2005 - Sep 2006. Am I correct in that?
Who knows?
Most likely the current cap of 65,000 will stay, but that is purely speculation.
The administration may increase it or decrease it.
We'll have to wait and watch.
Since they declared in a press release that they won't even be accepting new applications, it means that they are confident that very few slots will be available for new applications this FY.
This reflects on the huge backlog that they already have.
Back during the 1999 - 2001 time frame, BCIS (then called INS) used to accept applications even though the cap was reached - they just didn't approve those applications.
I believe the quota was increased to a very high number (195,000) sometime around 2002 and the cap thus became only a moot issue.
Quote:You mean against the FY 2005 cap?
Petitions against this cap have been getting filed since Oct 1 2004 and are continuing to filed as we speak. Right?
I don't think they are accepting new applications at this time going by the press release you quoted.
As I said, in the past they used to accept new application even after the cap was reached - they just didn't process them.
But sounds like this time they are saying "no more - we already have enough for 1 full year" !
Quote:Yes.
This I assume is because the quote for FY2005 got exhausted on 1st Oct 2004. Check?
They probably had a backlog anyway even before 1st Oct 2004.
And come October 1st, they would have received a deluge of applications and they made a press announcement to put a stop to that.
Quote:Once a petition is approved, they are required to issue the approval notice.
The question is - Why do they hold on to the petitions until Oct 1? I mean, processing and approving does not necessarily imply that the immigrant can enter rightaway.
Once the approval notice is issued and mailed, the applicant can go to a US consulate and apply for a visa.
They do not issue the approval notice once the cap has been reached to avoid this situation.
There are probably a marginal number of cases that have actually been completed but the approval notice was not issued because the cap was reached in the last FY.
Those guys will be the first ones to receive their approval notices in the mail come 1st Oct.
How many such applicants are there - that's anybody's guess.
Quote:It is very difficult to estimate exactly how much work the BCIS actually does on a case if the cap has been reached (assuming they accepted the application in the first place).
I am confused.
Do you mean that "processing" of individual petitions starts as they are received at the USICS, because earlier you have said that they allow the petitions to pile up and "start" processsing only from Oct 1, though as I have asked earlier I do not see the sense in that.
Two scenarios -
(1) Quota is still open - applications will be processed in the order received.
Applications will be approved depending on the complexity of the case, and not in order received (i.e. a simple case filed later than a complex case will get approval first).
(2) Quota is closed - some background work may or may not be done.
But the majority of the work (including a decision) will not be made until the quota for the next FY opens.
Exactly how much work they do on a case if the quota is already closed is known only to an INS official or someone who is closely involved with that process (maybe a lawyer with intimate knowledge of the process).
Guesses by laymen like us is only speculation.
Quote:This is just the way the system works !
This is what I don't understand. Approving a petition is not the same as giving a visa. The actual entry itself is controlled by the latter and approving a petition, which is an independent activity, therefore does not appear to be in violation of anything.
Approving a petition means issuing the notice.
That enables the applicant to go to a US consulate for a visa.
The US consulate (which is actually an entirely different department under an entirely different wing of the govt.) will then have to refuse the visa to the applicant, which is a very bad thing.
I would prefer to not to have the approval notice, rather than have a visa refusal on my passport !
Quote:Regardless of who filed first, the case that got processed faster will receive the approval.
I am sorry, I should have been more explicit. What I meant was what if the two petitions were competing for the 65,000th slot?
The filing date simple determines which case starts first, not which wins the approval first.
Quote:Um, no !
But I guess you have already answered that question when you said that other things being equal, is on "FC-FS" basis. The one that had been received earlier would be approved first.
The one received first will get into the processing queue first.
But it may not be approved first.
Depends on several factors like complexity of the case, how comprehensive and complete the supporting documentation is, the load on the processing officer, and many more.
Since 9/11, a new factor has been added to the equation - which country the applicant belongs to.
Ceteris Paribus, a national from the UK will receive his visa faster than a national from Syria or North Korea !
Quote:Well, if everything else is really equal then yes, the case filed earlier will get approved first.
I am sorry again if I was not clear. In my example the two petitions are being filed for the 2006 quota.
But all things are rarely equal - there are several factors at play and trying to predict the date of approval like this (and perhaps making other plans like travel, quitting job, etc.) is fraught with peril.
Quote:I thought you quoted the press release that they said back in Oct 2004 that the quota for FY 2005 is already overbooked and they aren't accepting any new applications?
That the USICS is continuing to accept petitions at this time, does it imply that it has not received 65,000 petitions yet?
OR
Will it continue to accept as many as are coming in regardless. Only after 1st Oct, will they start processing and approving them and stop once 65,000 have been approved?
Did I miss something?
In earlier years, they used to continue accepting new applications but did not process them.
Quote:Canada has a quota for PR applications, which has been steadily increasing every year.
Does Canada have "reserved" quota as you say? Any idea how much or where t to get that info?
Check the CIC website for latest info.
I don't know if there is a quota for work permits in Canada (similar to US H-1B).
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"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."
-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"
Just a note about your example where you said everything is the same between two cases except the sponsoring employer.
Actually, that's a very important factor and can actually mean the different between a fast approval and waiting until next year.
The case has to establish the employer's credibility just as the employee's credibility.
A case filed by (for example) Microsoft Corp. or Oracle Corp. is likely to be approved much faster than one filed by FlyByNight Inc. everything else being equal !
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"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."
-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"
From http://www.computerworld.com/careertopics/careers/labor/story/0,10801,96412,00.html
Quote:
The cap on H-1B visas granted to foreign workers was reached on Friday -- the same day the new federal fiscal year began. Never before has the limit been reached on the same day it took effect.
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services said late Friday that because the 65,000-visa cap had been reached, it won't accept any more petitions for this year's allocation.
The date referred is Oct 1st 2004.
I am still trying to get my head around this damned piece of information. It says that “the cap on H-1B visas granted to foreign workers was reached on Friday…”.
Is it saying that 65,000 H1b visas were issued by the end of day Oct 1, 2004. Or is the statement loosely worded and what it is actually trying to say is that “65,000 H1b petitions had got approval by the end of Oct 1st, 2004.
If it is the latter, it would imply that the process of approvals starts much earlier, maybe as soon as the first petitions are received. It is virtually impossible to initiate processing of H1b applications on Oct 1st and finish processing them for approvals by the end of the same day! So, the process that eventually leads to approval/rejection must be starting well in advance. However, it seems that the result of that process is not made known to the applicant until after Oct 1.
In light of the above could you please elaborate a little more on what you said here:
Quote:
Orginally posted by pratickm
Since they declared in a press release that they won't even be accepting new applications, it means that they are confident that very few slots will be available for new applications this FY.
This reflects on the huge backlog that they already have.
Which FY do you mean? Are you saying that the petitions filed for FY2005, but not considered because the cap had been reached, are automatically cued in for the next FY, that is FY2006 at this time? I would assume that they return the unsuccessful petitions, refunding the fees and if the applicant wants to file for the next FY then he has to petition again.
When I said :
Quote:
Petitions against this cap have been getting filed since Oct 1 2004
I meant for FY2006 and not FY2005. But I guess I was a little wrong there perhaps. Since the earliest one can file is 6 months before the employment date, and no H1bs can are available before Oct 1 2005, the petitions must have started April 1, 2005.
Quote:
Orginally posted by pratickm
Regardless of who filed first, the case that got processed faster will receive the approval.
The filing date simple determines which case starts first, not which wins the approval first.
Are you really sure about that. Because it appears rather illogical. While you say that the cases can be processed in different times, the reason for that variation need not always be on account of, or related to, the petition itself. It could also be different because there are different people handling different cases and their output efficiency could be different due to several factors. It is like two people standing at 2 reservation counters. As soon as one of the requests is entered in the computer, the seat gets locked until the transaction is completed. The acceptance of a petition for processing is a similar transaction and must be locked until a result is got. It wouldn’t be ethically appropriate to deny someone an H1b only because the officer dealing with that case was slow or wanted to investigate more or whatever.
When I asked about “reserved quota for Canada” I meant is there a reserved quota of H1b for Canadian citizens?
Thanks again for your replies.
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Diogenes
====================
The Cynic
