Top Eight Reasons NOT to immigrate to Canada


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nocanadatoday   
Member since: Aug 05
Posts: 10
Location:

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 09-08-05 09:55:52

The above poster is a perfect example of the type of people who immigrate to canada, delusional and very misinformed.

Did some canadian embassy fill you with their lies?

Or perhaps it was some money hungry canadian immigration lawyer?

I can offer him this:

My dear friend, you will NEVER be considered a Canadian.

Yes! You can obtain that worthless canadian citizenship card.

But you will never be accepted into Canadian society or hierarchy. Never.

DON'T BELIEVE ME?

Read:

http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/forum.asp

AND THIS ALSO:

http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/openletter.htm#articles



crenshaw   
Member since: Sep 04
Posts: 914
Location: Toronto

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 09-08-05 10:09:09

Has the good doctor returned? :D



DesiTiger   
Member since: Aug 03
Posts: 1205
Location: Mississauga

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 09-08-05 10:14:54

Quote:
Orginally posted by nocanadatoday

The above poster is a perfect example of the type of people who immigrate to canada, delusional and very misinformed.
Quote:


I wish more people like me immigrated to Canada cuz then we won't have fools flooding this forum with SOB stories like these. :p

Quote:


Did some canadian embassy fill you with their lies?

Or perhaps it was some money hungry canadian immigration lawyer?

Quote:


Funny, I don't remember the Canadian Embassy guys giving me any information (Positive or Negative) about Canada :h

As for "Money Hungry Lawyers", I won't know anything about that cuz I went through the entire process on my lonesome.

Quote:


I can offer him this:

My dear friend, you will NEVER be considered a Canadian.

Quote:


Says Who? Don't make me a part of your frustrated fantasies.

Quote:


Yes! You can obtain that worthless canadian citizenship card.

Quote:


I suppose your Indian passport has more value :p

Quote:


But you will never be accepted into Canadian society or hierarchy. Never.

Quote:


Seeing your Terrible Grammar and attitude, I don't see how you could fit in any Society or hierarchy in the Western world?

Quote:


DON'T BELIEVE ME?

Read:

http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/forum.asp

AND THIS ALSO:

http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/openletter.htm#articles</font>


Quote:


I'd have to be on crack to take you and your fellow members of the Boo Hoo brigade seriously.

Wake up and smell the coffee dude. If you step on a thorn, whose fault is it, three guesses

1. Yours
2. Thorn's
3. Canada's :D


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Azazf   
Member since: Oct 04
Posts: 508
Location:

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 09-08-05 10:26:51

Quote:
Orginally posted by DesiTiger


Top Eight Reasons WHY YOU SHOULD immigrate to Canada

1. Opportunities Galore: For bright minds, the chances of making it big are much higher here than in India (by bright minds I am referring to your Financial aptitude, it's got nothing to do with your "academic" education)




I think oppurtunities in India are plenty right now and on the increase with every passing day.



Quote:

2. High Standard of Living :- Good clean roads, a civic infrastructure that actually works for everybody and not just a select few, Housing, Water, Electricity and Food easily available etc etc.



No Doubt about that



Quote:

3. Be all you can be : Well, at least in Canada you can do so without your neighbor and their entire family (immediate and extended :D ) making it the talk of town.




Would have to surely agree here again


Quote:

4. Access to major Business opportunities in North America - may not be a reason for everybody but still...



I would think that has already changed and the amount of companies in India from NorthAmerica if not more than canada is prolly the same.

Quote:

5. Become a Citizen in 3 years and the suddenly you are welcome in most countries without a Visa :cheers:


You will still need a visa for India;)



Quote:

6. You don't have to be embarrassed every time BBC or CNN do a feature on Laloo Prasad Yadav or other animals of Indian politics. You don't live there anymore :p



Not living in India does not make you a non indian......you will be either A "NON RESIDENT INDIAN"
B "CANADIAN INDIAN"


Quote:

7. You can walk down a street without getting mugged, robbed or otherwise molested by hawkers.



May be a lot of us are taking the safety and security in canada for granted .but i think you are right here again



Quote:

8. Last but NOT the Least, You don't have to put up with losers like nocanadatoday simply because he is your mom's friend's neighbor’s son :p


That just cracked me up!!!:D




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"Progress comes from deviation".

On a side note if anybody finds my comments or posts offensive or irritating please ignore it and if that still bothers you; please write to me and I will demonstrate.


crenshaw   
Member since: Sep 04
Posts: 914
Location: Toronto

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 09-08-05 10:34:24

Quote:
Orginally posted by DesiTiger
Funny, I don't remember the Canadian Embassy guys giving me any information (Positive or Negative) about Canada :h

As for "Money Hungry Lawyers", I won't know anything about that cuz I went through the entire process on my lonesome.



Aw, haven’t you heard the boo-hoo brigade’s favorite line? The Canadian ‘government’ invited them to come to Canada.

In one of the boo-hoo stories floating around, the Canadian immigration officials ‘knocked on the door’ of an Afghan refugee in India saying that the government had pre-selected him to come to Canada. :D

All available for free on Canadiandesi.com…….



nocanadatoday   
Member since: Aug 05
Posts: 10
Location:

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 09-08-05 11:39:06

Encourage you all to read the newspaper articles listed at the end of this page:

http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/top8reasons.htm

AND

if you are still not convinced by that page, read the testimonials of hundreds of Immigrants from over 40 countries here:

http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/forum_2.asp



nocanadatoday   
Member since: Aug 05
Posts: 10
Location:

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 09-08-05 11:39:58

TAKEN FROM: http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/forum_2.asp


June 1 - 2005
I came to Canada almost 4 years ago. I 'm working in super-store as a Stocker clerk. I worked for BP exploration and Occidental Colombia as a Geotechnical. I have 11 years experience in oil companies.

I don't understand because this province don't believe in the experience of the immigrants. I feel sad because it's so hard get a good job. I think that Canada welcomes immigrants only for doing jobs that Canadians don't like.
Patricia R. Calgary, Alberta.


June 3 - 2005
I am searching for a job before I move from Egypt to Canada.
Mahmoud A. Egypt.


June 3 - 2005
I studied chemistry in Germany and worked for several years as a Chemist and a Technical Marketing Manager in the bauxite industry in Guyana and Belgium before moving to Canada (BC) 10 years ago. I moved to BC because in my research I discovered that BC had a resource based economy and the economy was growing better than some provinces in Canada.

I tried everything to get an appropriate job in BC but it never happened. Eventually I landed a job with an American company looking for Reps on the west coast to supervise sampling and testing of ores an concentrates. After four years there was major consolidation in the copper industry which resulted in a major loss of contracts for the company and consequently my release. I moved to Toronto in 2001 and tried again to get a proper job. I started to temp in a warehouse of a sticker manufacturer who eventually hired me as a supervisor in their fulfillment department. So I am employed albeit underemployed and strongly believe that I could/should be doing a lot better than I am right now.
Roger. Ontario, Canada.


June 4 - 2005
The site has clear, uncluttered graphical interface. Nice work!
Sachin. UAE.


June 5 - 2005
Four years in Canada without a full-time job.

I came to Canada 4 years ago, spent all my savings 23.000,00 U.S. dollars, went through re-training and still can't find a Job.

I have suffered all types of discrimination and racial profiling in this country. It is the most racist place I ever lived.

We must tell the world what a SHAM Canada really is.

Angry Brazilian.
Fabio. Toronto, Ontario.


June 6 - 2005
I immigrated to Canada in March, 2001 and immediately applied to register with APEGGA (Association of Professional Engineers, Geologists and Geophysicists of Alberta), I was told that my almost 12 years experience does not qualify for an Engineering experience that I will need to write some technical exams to be admitted into the Association. I agreed on writng these exams, these are the same courses I took in the University over 15 years ago. I want to know any Canadian trained Engineer that will be willing to write exams on courses taken 15 years ago.

I studied very hard, combining it with my work, wrote and passed these technical exams, scoring 85%, 80% and 50% on the courses I took. I also passed the professional ethics exams and APEGGA enrolled my as an Engineer-In-Training (EIT) Electrical Engineering. This was in May, 2003. I was told that I need two more years of experience to become a professional engineer.

Since then I have applied to more than 500 companies, talked to professional engineers, employers and even APEGGA executive about getting an entry level engineering position, but all to no avail. It looks I am at my own mercy. It is like the engineering companies and employer does not even recognize an EIT from APEGGA, because this class of people are immigrants. Almost all Canadian trained EIT fresh from the University get jobs within the first six months of graduation.

The APEGGA exams are not easy, very few people agree to write these exams, and the failure rates is very high and they are expensive too, especially when you are accessed many. How does the Association expect me to get the required experience for the professional Engineering status.

If the Canadian Government reads the comment on the web site, they should find solutions to people with my experience.

Thanks
Peter. Alberta, Canada.


June 7 - 2005
Nice words, nice law, but the Canadian government and their agencies do not respect their own ruling; whenever I look at the government jobs open to the public, they state: "Canadian Citizens are preferred."

CONTRARY TO THEIR WEBSITE:
http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/s15/home.html

"It is not easy to make history in just 92 words, but Canada accomplished that feat in 1985 when Section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms came into force. It marked a milestone in Canada's evolution as a nation by making equality rights a permanent part of our constitution. Section 15 has guided our lawmakers in creating laws that are just, and has helped ensure that everyone in Canada has the right to be free from discrimination.

Equality Rights

15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability."
Doris. Ontario.


June 7 - 2005
Dear Peter,

Sorry to hear about your story of hardships, I wish you all the luck in the world on getting your PE, also thanks for sharing your story with us, it will give people around the world the real light on how disappointing and frustrating the Canadian system is. You know what is the funniest part, the mediocrity of the professional engineers in Canada. You can see them building and tearing apart a street/building/you name it; 1000s of times all at tax payers expense.

You know how the government likes to keep their Canadian countrymen employed even if that means getting the city in deep debts, also in the oil industry Canadians are known for drilling the most number of stratigraphic wells, please read dry wells. They are afraid the world to know how incapable they are instead on building on the fresh ideas an immigrant could bring like the US or Great Britain. But hey you know, Canadians are like flies, they just don't get tired of stepping on the you know what of their own ignorance, is the getting banged on the head trying to fly through a closed window when there is a big wide open door of opportunities. These guys would sell their souls to the devil in order to get power or status, as a well known conservative sold out the "interests of honest Canadians" to the liberals.

But not everything is lost. You know, in my country they are making Canadians and Americans go through hard immigration and professional programs for them to work there and make money, they are getting paid with in the same way as immigrants in Canada. How sad is living in times where we are walking backwards, ways of a good future.
Andres. Halifax.


June 8 - 2005
Hi, I'm a Mexican Informatics Engineer, single, 35 years old. I'm currently working at ING Insurances, and I'm very interested in moving to Canada as a "skilled worker," but after reading your interesting articles and chatting with friends who have worked in Canada, I realized how complicated the situation for an immigrant could get, mostly regarding employment.

To tell you the truth, I'm quite disappointed because I thought that Canada was the best option to live and work. Do you think that the situation of immigrants would be better after the resignation of Ms. Sgro? Should I go ahead with my original plan? I haven't started my application process, but I'm about to do it. Thanks for your consideration.
Héctor C. México.


June 10 - 2005
My name is Bryant M. and I am trying to find an immigration society that would be interested in hiring a social worker. I have just graduated from Mount Royal College with my diploma and I can not find any sites that would be interested in accepting my resume. Could you help me with some names or contacts. I live in Calgary, Alberta and I am very interested in helping immigrant families with there transition into the western cultures or any other barriers they may encounter. Thank You.
Bryan M. Alberta.


June 13 - 2005
I'm applying to your site because I have tried everything to work in my field, but nothing has happened. It hurts me because I'm good in my profession. I'm working for a good company in country, the Federacion Nacional de Cafeteros de Colombia, but I'm not in my professional area, and that makes me feel frustrated.
Heiber. Colombia.


June 13 - 2005
It's a great place to have a positive hope to get a job in the desire field.
Niraj P. Toronto, Ontario.


June 14 - 2005
"I thought that Canada was the best option to live and work."
Hector, this is what Immigration Canada and Lawyers/Immigration Consultants tell the world... only to make money.

"Do you think that the situation of immigrants would be better after the resignation of Ms. Sgro?"

No, not at all! Their job is to bring people into Canada - not to give them an adequate position.

When you check out advertised positions from the government you will always read: "Canadian Citizen preferred"

Other Job Regulations are made by professional associations - and there are more than 400 in Canada. None of them is interested in helping newcomers - but they will offer you their expensive membership...

****

" My name is Bryant M. and I am trying to find an immigration society that would be interested in hiring a social worker."

Bryan, sorry, but h o w will you help immigrants if you are not even able to locate the immigration services in Canada to post your resume???

And what do you call "WESTERN CULTURE" ??? Do you really think it has something to do with culture what's going on here in North America? It's a culture of cheating, yes and of fast food and silly movies.

The only culture in Canada is the one of the natives.
Early immigrants like French and English have not brought any culture into Canada. You better study the history and geography of other parts of the world, in order to learn about their culture, before you are overweening.

Sorry, but someone has to tell you that!

Doris A. Ottawa, Ontario


June 18 - 2005
Hi,
I want to migrate to Canada and I have been reading all of the immigration websites -some of them recommend to get a job before moving there.
Fernando M. Tegucigalpa, Honduras.


June 19 - 2005
This is a very good site for solving problems of peoples of minorities and other peoples.
R. Farrukh. Pakistan.


June 20 - 2005
My first question is, how can I submit my resume for your web?
My second question is, if there is not enough qualified job in Canada, or it's hard to get job for foreign skilled worker, then why the authority has a process called "skilled worker" immigration to Canada. I mean if the country needs workers for unqualified purposes, it's just easier to import unskilled labor instead of skilled labor to do unqualified works, isn't it?
Then nobody get headache!
Hamid. Calgary, Alberta.


June 20 - 2005
I'm glad there's an organization like this w/c is helping immigrants get jobs in countries they have immigrated to.
More power and all the best for your help and support for all immigrants.
Al. R. Chilliwack, B.C.


June 22 - 2005
Hi immigrants in Canada, particularly Colombians and Latin Americans,

The experience I had in Canada was the worst experience in my life. I'm going to tell you my story with no egoism. I'll tell you only the truth; what happened to me and many other Latinos I met in Quebec where I lived the saddest and more deceiving 8 months of my life.

I'm a specialized lawyer. I worked for a Colombian department of justice for more than 10 years. My wife is also a lawyer. We moved to Canada with the dream that the Canadian embassy sells: To improve our quality of life -that supposedly is the best in the world. That's what an officer from the embassy told us in a reunion in the Alianza Francesa. That man talked to an audience of more than 100 people about the best quality of life in the world, employment insurance, free healthcare, free education, lots of employment, etc. It was the best thing that could happen to any professional who were under 40 years old and had kids.

So I moved there. I sold everything but my house. Once we arrived in Montreal, Longueuil, we could get the quality of life as if we were a displaced people. It's true, the government support for unemployment is $1,200 for 4 people, but a monthly rent is $800, hydro $100, phone $30. The cost of life is very expensive e.g. two tomatoes is $6. Imagine that. I couldn't get the standard of living I had in my country.

Over there an immigrant has to bear racism never experienced before. The worst place to raise your kids is Canada. If you have small children, please don't believe that you will get better status there. We might have bad reputation in my country because of the drugs, but we don't consume it, but in Canada they do.

Regarding a job, if you are a professional, forget your titles, postgraduate studies; they don't have any value. You have to study all over again. You have to study the language. It takes from 6 to 7 years to start working some day. When you finish your studies, they ask you for Canadian experience, and because you don't have it, they don't give you a job. They just hire you for low jobs in cleaning washrooms, warehouses, apartments, etc., and the wages are extremely low, so you will be in debt. The money is never enough, so you couldn't save any.

If you are a technician, any sort of trade, they will ask for Canadian experience. It doesn't matte if you have 10 or more years of experience from your country, that experience has no value. You have to study again, then they will ask you for Canadian experience, so you will have to take a low job and a low salary.

Si usted está haciendo planes para ir a Canadá, por favor, averigüe bien la situación, allí no hay futuro para ningún inmigrante, si lo es para los canadienses, pero para nadie mas. Yo conocí gente profesional del salvador, de Perú, de Venezuela, de Panamá etc. Médicos lavando baños, ingenieros civiles y eléctricos bulteando en bodegas, abogados barriendo, etc. El trato hacia el inmigrante es lo peor, es humillante, descortés, bajo, sucio.

Ahora respecto al idioma, si habla inglés allí en determinados lugares exigen que se hable francés, si habla francés exigen el inglés cuando notan que es inmigrante, el acento es la sanción mas grande, son tan groseros los quebecos que si usted les habla en francés y ellos notan el acento, inmediatamente le dan la espalda y lo dejan hablando solo diciéndole que no le comprenden nada así lo hayan entendido, y si habla ingles le salen que solo hablan francés y viceversa.

En conclusión, mi experiencia como profesional del derecho en Canadá, es lo peor que puede pasarle a cualquiera, perdí mas de 35 millones en el viaje de ida y regreso, me fui por que aquí no había trabajo, pero mentira, solo es cuestión de organizarse, ahora estoy en mi país trabajando muy bien, asesorando empresas, y ejerciendo, mientras allá era el peón, el humillado, mal tratado, y que decir de mi familia, todos ellos pasaron necesidades que nunca en mi país tuvimos, aun en nuestro país se puede trabajar y salir adelante así como en los demás países de América Latina.

Ojo, por favor píenselo muy bien, conocí muchas personas y familias completas, de Argentina, de Perú, Colombia, chile, el salvador, etc. Que llevan en Canadá mas de 10 años, por pena y orgullo y falta de dinero generalmente no han podido volver a sus países, gente que son profesionales y viven haciendo aseo, no poseen bienes de ninguna clase , pagan arriendo, reciben una minucia del estado como subsidio de desempleo, no pueden volver por que han vendido todo en sus países y no tienen a donde regresar, no tienen para el vuelo del avión hacia sus países, pues ahorrar allá 5 millones es de titanes, el costo de vida es exageradísimo.

Han escuchado de las ayudas que da el gobierno, pues estas son. De alimentos, los almacenes como Wal-Mart, super c., etc, tienen grandes estándares de alimentos próximos a vencerse, ejemplo 2 tractomulas repletas de yogurt, como ven que no alcanzan a venderlas en un plazo de uno a dos meses, donan estos alimentos, así pan, verduras, carnes, etc. A iglesias, estas las distribuyen a los inmigrantes, eso si le llenan el carro del mercado de todo, pero que decepción, cuando llega a su apto. Y empieza a empacar a la nevera, todo esta vencido, y la consigna es, métalo al congelador, que estando congelado no le hace daño, mentira, todo alimento vencido puede envenenar a cualquier persona y mas a lo niños, que tal darles leche vencida de mas de un mes, carne, pollo etc., por que esas son las ayudas, y ahora que decir con la ropa, es cierto si dan ropa , pero vieja de segunda no, es como de quinta que huele a diablo, los quebecos no se bañan seguido, y donan esa ropa y luego se la regalan a los inmigrantes, le gustaría una vida así, ahora, sino quiere recibir estas ayudas debe comprar todo, pero debe ganar por lo menos 10 mil dólares mensuales para poder medio subsistir, pero así y todo se vive mejor en nuestros países.

Ya sabe, si es profesional o técnico, no viaje a Canadá, se que EEUU es mejor, al menos no existe el racismo extremo, le emplean sin exigencia de experiencia gringa, allí existe gente civilizada, pero en Canadá, que pena. Que dios los bendiga y ojo, piénselo no una sino mil veces una , la decisión de viajar a Canadá y menos a Montreal o Québec.
Que dios te bendiga!
Carlos J. Colombia.


June 22 - 2005
Please stop spreading hate. My wife and I lived in several "bad neighbourhoods" as we struggled to survive and advance ourselves. We worked many low wage jobs, sought and paid for training to qualify us with more skills, and were willing to relocate for a chance at a better life.

If your qualifications are not recognized in Canada, I am sure that as an educated person, you will understand and seek the necessary training to qualify you.

If you are an unskilled worker in Canada, possibilities for education are almost limitless. The education will not just happen to you, you must seek it out and work hard to achieve your goals.

If you just want to complain, and cry about the people of Canada who have bettered themselves through their endeavors, I welcome you to try your luck again on other shores. Canada needs productive individuals who care about the country and her people. We do not need people seeking a free ride through compensation.

I shop at "big box" department stores. We shop at second hand stores for some clothes. Yet I am not a "foreign and visible minority professional". Your words smack of discrimination against the people of Canada. Stop spreading hate.
Yours truly,
John Watson. Fort McMurray, AB.


June 23 - 2005
Hi,
Although I have ten years hands-on experience in designing electrical and mechanical systems, I couldn't find a job in Canada. I have written a good and profession resume before I come to Canada. I considered principle of writing resume. Even before I come to Canada I was familiar with famous Job search such as Monster, etc. But now I think there are many barriers for finding a job in Canada .
Majid. Toronto, Canada.


June 23 - 2005
I'm a Peruvian, and I have applied for my resident visa to Canada. It's very interesting the site you are promoting.
Roman. R. Peru.


June 24 - 2005
I'm reading this forum for some while now because we (my family and me) are about to immigrate to Canada. We have our visa arranged and can go any moment. I have some experience as an expat working in Calgary and now some immigrants from the Netherlands over there. If you consider this forum and the stories that are told, I get the opinion that only people with negative experiences respond to this forum. (Ok I'm aware that the main reason for this is that it's called "immigrant job issues".) The stories I hear from fellow countrymen that jumped the Atlantic are, on the contrary, mostly very positive.

When you compare the job market in the Netherlands with Canada there is a huge difference in how things work. We are a very little country, about the size of Vancouver Island, in which half the people of Canada live (16.5 million). Distances are very short and the possibilities to find a job in such a big user community are much higher. It is easy to travel, so you can commute if there is no job near your habitat (oops, but a lot of traffic..)

What I would like to find out is:
Mainly people with negative experiences do post over here: what is your vision regarding the difficulties you meet? Is the main reason you cannot find a (proper) job due to the fact that you (probably) belong to a group of visible minorities, or is it a general issue regarding immigrants from everywhere despite colour, ability to speak English etc?

I think it is very sad that people still judge on skin colour or on appearances rather than character or the ability to perform very well in a job.

Sometimes I get discouraged when I read this forum but know that this is a place where a lot of frustrations are told. I therefore think this forum serves a purpose but I cannot imagine that Canada -in general- is a country where immigrants are not able to succeed if they really want. I know there is also a big issue with immigrants from Arabic countries in my home country. Most of these issues are due to misunderstanding caused by the public opinion influenced by the media and news. I think Arabic people in common are very friendly people and my experiences are all very positive.

I always (again and again) find out how little people are able to think for themselves and rather choose to run behind the masses instead. (I think this is where racism is all about)

I hope that this forum will be less one sided in the future and bring more discussion and reasoning. Maybe you should start a second forum in which success stories can be told ;-) I strongly believe in a positive attitude and think that will help you, especially with a huge step like immigration to another country.

There is a saying in the Netherlands: "If there is a (strong) wish, there is a road" This keeps my dream alive. (but maybe naïve..) Good luck to you all!
Harold. Rijswijk, Netherlands.


June 24 - 2005
Hi everyone. I'm a Dominican living in Prince Edward Island. My concern is about how people ignore us in the workplace -maybe because we are immigrants.

As always and because of education, I like to greet people when I arrive at work every morning, but they ignore me most of the times. I feel how weird they look at me, as if I were from another planet. They never include me in their conversations. When I'm talking to somebody and a white person arrives, they kick me out of the conversation.

Sometimes, I feel as if I were in hell here because there are not many Latinos and I don't have many friends here. Sometimes I want to quit and go back to my country. Only my three beautiful kids and pregnant wife keep me from doing that, but I feel suffocated. I need help. Thanks for allowing me to express my feelings. Bye.
Miguel R. Prince Edward Island, Canada.


June 24 - 2005
In ideal terms, we all recognize the right of individuals to be free to pursue their dreams; yet, there are limits to how we can achieve this and we must also recognize that by virtue of luck people from different socio-economic classes face different barriers in gaining access to opportunity.

If Canada sets immigration quotas then it must balance the needs of its current population with the needs of people wishing to come here. If new immigrants are not achieving the kind of life they expected when moving here, there will be resentment. Just as, citizens native to Canada will feel cheated if they achieve a reasonable education and are displaced because immigration policy created more competitive criteria for gaining access to desired positions without having job responsibilities change. For instance, there are probably PhDs with multiple Post-Docs willing to enter Canada but if we let them all in then few native Canadians would have an opportunity to meet their career goals.

We also face resentment if increasing population levels results in falling wages, fewer regulations and pressures that threaten a valued standard of living. While immigrants, as individuals are not to blame as they are only seeking a better life for themselves, the governments making the policies should be rightly criticized for not considering the needs and aspirations of their citizens.
Jean M. Toronto, Canada.


June 25 - 2005
Hello, Good day!
Just wanted to post my resume in this interesting website. Though, I'm not yet an immigrant (since I'm still waiting for an interview - I have now my filing number), I just want to try my luck, and maybe expedite my immigration to Canada.

This site really helps! Thank and more power!
Jeffrey D. Philippines


June 25 - 2005
I think I face discrimination due too age as well as being an Immigrant. Lack of Canadian experience is the key thing they say, but I think having worked internationally in my profession with excellent command over English, some good companies are loosing out on Immigrants who are technically qualified like me.
Raymond. Markham, Ontario.


June 25 - 2005
Good Morning everyone,
I just want to thank the Management of this Web Site, very good job. And I want to ask about the LAW Action of Rasulzada against the CIC launched before sometime in Canada, any progress, did they win the case or it is still in process. Thanks,
R. Hawi. Abu Dhabi, UAE.


June 26 - 2005
Hi Harold from the Netherlands,

All what people post here is true. You might want to take this as a warning. Did you ever consider to try the USA? We Western Europeans can participate in the diversity visa lottery (Canadians cannot).

Please take some time to read between the lines of John Watson's posting from June 22, 2005. It is so typical for about 80% of the population in Canada. You are probably, like many Western Europeans, looking for an American type of country. Canada is more a socialist, small-town spirited country or how a Canadian born in Austria put it "full of trailer park trash".

This is a free forum and we want to have free speech but the minute somebody speaks out what hardships he/she experienced in this country somebody pops up from nowhere accusing people of hate against the country or "spreading hate".

I am again and again surprised how Canadians even brag about how they "worked many low wage jobs" as if it were something to promote and defend. A lot of the Canadians I met love to moralize and educate others. This funny Albertan I mentioned before, accuses all immigrants of not wanting to advance and not being willing to better their lives and tops this in the end with " seeking a free ride through compensation." You know how much money skilled immigrants bring with them and how they go through so many tests and have to have a high education.

Then look at what John from Alberta writes next: "If you just want to complain, and cry about the people of Canada who have bettered themselves through their endeavors, I welcome you to try your luck again on other shores" or how you will hear it more often "if you don't like it here why don't you go home?"

We have lived here for 4 and a half years and we don't like it here. We are moving to Texas next month. It is funny how so many people from all over the world come to the same conclusion. How they feel betrayed by this country. I am not willing to discuss with people like the Albertan anymore. They have nothing to say really. They feel betrayed by their country too but at the same time they defend their country and the lousy situation they are in. Why is it required that somebody who is working has to get his clothes in a second hand store?
Hilde, BC


June 26 - 2005
I strongly agree with your view regarding Canadian Immigration system. Canadian government showing dishonesty towards immigrants and the world. They are creating wrong impression to the world.

They have nothing here, just land and broad broad road. They inviting highly educated and skilled professional people to work here as labour, taxi driver, pizza deliver. Doctors in back home country deliver babies and here they have to delivers pizzas. Canadian company's should get world's best award to have highly skilled labour. Thanks & Regards,
Tilesh Khatri (Software Professional), Canada.


June 27 - 2005
Hello,
John's posting deserves to be answered.
Please stop spreading hate. My wife and I lived in several "bad neighbourhoods" as we struggled to survive and advance ourselves. We worked many low wage jobs, sought and paid for training to qualify us with more skills, and were willing to relocate for a chance at a better life.

A: For this forum to spread hate, it is open enough to post your statements against the "hate" you see here. I have never read anything here pointing to what you say. Before getting started, and in case you have misconceptions about canadian immigration I will give you some facts.

Prospective immigrants to canada are selected based on their education levels, years of work experience and command of canada's official languages. Immigrants have to pay hefty fees in order to apply and get their papers, in addition to pay for medical examinations that are mandatory for all immigrants in the independent category (FYI, I paid about $2,000 (U.S.) to get mine processed, plus other expenses).

Those highly educated immigrants are forced to spend countless years in dead-end jobs despite their education, work experience and even after getting further education in Canada (bachelor and master degrees). Many immigrants did their homework (advance themselves) before landing in canada, so they do not need to redo what they already did. By the way, what did you do when you were younger? Did you advance yourself enough not to endure hardship now?

If your qualifications are not recognized in Canada, I am sure that as an educated person, you will understand and seek the necessary training to qualify you.

A: First, those credentials were good enough for Immigration officers to grant resident status. Unfortunately, they are deemed worthless once you land in Canada.

Second, the labor market rejects education credentials earned in Western Europe, Australia and the U.S. I met two individuals that had master's degrees from the U.S. that ended up in call centers or flipping burgers. The same happened to me despite having a Master's degree from a top U.S. University as you can see in the links below
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/pub/brief/pad_brief.php
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/pub/brief/padsp7_brief.php
(just see the names there, I graduated from one of these with a 3.80 GPA -if you know what it means).

Third, let me give you an example of credential assessment -a conversation with a recruiter over the phone. I was told that, "I am sure you can do the job, but unless you have two or three years of local experience, nobody will give you that position ." The position I had applied for was a technical one, not a managerial one. Very fair and objective assessment, don't you think?

Fourth, about getting more training to qualify myself. I would recommend further training for some canadian employers and professionals. The few I met proved to be inefficient and unprofessional -if not plainly disrespectful. Differences with U.S. counterparts reveal this even more clearly; even when they belong to the same company, U.S. professionals are fields ahead of canadians in terms of competence.

Bottom line: I suspected (now I am quite certain) that the problem does not lay in assessing foreign education credentials, but maybe with the holders of those credentials.

If you are an unskilled worker in Canada, possibilities for education are almost limitless. The education will not just happen to you, you must seek it out and work hard to achieve your goals.

A: you got it wrong, dude. Most of the people posting in this forum have -at least- a Bachelor's degree, so what you said does not apply here. Many of them also have several years of experience working in their fields of expertise. Moreover, some people posting here pursued and earned degrees from Canadian universities and still cannot land jobs in their fields; worse, now they are deep in debt because of the loans taken to pay for their education.

If you just want to complain, and cry about the people of Canada who have bettered themselves through their endeavors, I welcome you to try your luck again on other shores.

A: I bailed out from your country but you should not take credit for that
Rather than paying from my broken pockets (or drowning in debt) to get another degree in canada (and probably getting nothing in exchange), I knew my credentials were good enough to get a scholarship in the U.S. Yes, I got it and I am quite happy. They are too glad not only to pay for my education -I am in a Ph.D. program in Public Policy- but also provide research opportunities.

They appreciated the value of the credentials I have, how I performed pursuing my Master's (FYI, I had taken several courses at the Ph.D. level), plus the teaching experience I gained in the U.S. I had no teaching experience (U.S., foreign or alien) when I first came to the U.S., but nonetheless they were open minded enough to give me my own course section to teach. On the contrary, when immigrants land in canada they are asked to have "canadian experience" to apply for the jobs they are qualified; if they apply to lower level jobs, they are told they are overqualified. What is that for? To leave the unwanted (read Immigrants) out of the labor market -except for the dead-end jobs, place from which they seldom get out.

Canada needs productive individuals who care about the country and her people. We do not need people seeking a free ride through compensation.

A: First, people has the right to demand compensation for damages caused by a misled immigration policy carried out by the canadian government, plus the biases prevailing in canada's labor market. That is called JUSTICE.

Second, your argument allows me to say that the canadian government is free-riding on immigrants' savings, forcing them to spend until their last penny is gone to offer welfare assistance, in the meantime, their savings feed canada's economy. Moreover, in Ontario you have to purchase private health insurance because you will be covered by OHIP only after three months of arrival. Therefore, everybody profits on immigration except the immigrants.

I shop at "big box" department stores. We shop at second hand stores for some clothes. Yet I am not a "foreign and visible minority professional.

A: you are wrong again. Now we know that you are not a visible minority professional. Are you a professional? I believe you are not a professional at all. A professional tries to seek an explanation for what is going on, rather than justify what happens with hollow statements.

Can you answer a question to me? If you like eating s.., why are we forced to eat the same s. you eat? In a free society -it is assumed- people make their choices. Isn't canada a free society? If you buy second hand because you have no other choice. I regret to say that you are in the same boat that many posting here even if you are chauvinistic enough not to admit it.

Last words for those that get here and find hard to believe what they read. Take all those postings for what they are worth, personal experiences in canada's labor market. As such, they may be the indication of something else. Finding this forum was an eye opener for me, and it sparked a research effort that convinced me that I had extremely limited chances of success in canada because of biases in hiring and promotions. working in a call center and finding professionals with degrees from England and the U.S. was also an eye opener.

I suggest a few places to start your search. They are canadian so maybe they are lesssearching
http://www.utoronto.ca/ethnicstudies/reitz.html#RecentPublications
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/030904/d030904a.htm
Working to bee poor (from canadian broadcasting corporation, CBC)
http://www.cbc.ca/ottawa/features/workingtobepoor/
Paid to be poor (from CBC)
http://www.cbc.ca/paidtobepoor/immigrants.html

Tons of info is available over the Internet that is worth reading. Immigrating is life changing decision whose success cannot be based on unfunded optimism, compounded with lack of information; worse, you cannot afford filling those info voids with erroneous assumptions about a reality in which you have never lived.

I have to thank John for speaking out his mind. You confirm my suspicions about what lies beneath the surface of some canadians in terms of their attitude towards foreigners. It confirms once again how right I was when we all bailed out of canada.

I apologize if some thoughts have not come out as smoothly as it should be. I am really sick of all that nonsense; it reminds me too much of my own Third World country. Good luck,
Gabriel. Atlanta, USA


June 27 - 2005
Thank you for your interesting web page, time to time all immigrants will fall in the reality of this country.
Elberth. Canada.


June 28 - 2005
There are two possible ways to argue why skilled workers are not getting access to jobs that satisfy their level of professional qualifications: Let us examine each in turn.

There is the argument that skilled immigrants who are highly educated from global universities and have years of experience are not being given proper consideration for local jobs. This may be due to several factors including a) ethnic discrimination b) belief that business customs in Canada are different than other nations and thus local experience is important c) belief that foreign credentials are not equivalent to degrees in industrial countries: for instance a degree in civil engineering from china would be based on different regulations and case studies than one completed in Canada d) bias due to language ability, difficulty understanding speech due to accent or e) with scarcity of jobs people in the position to hire offer positions to people they know in the community and who are friends (potential for class, religious and ethnic bias) or relatives (nepotism).

Even if a persons resume was examined without any cultural or ethnic identifiers there would still be bias based on where a person was trained. Even within an identifiable group many people discriminate based on age, gender, height, physical attractiveness, global philosophy etc.

While I sympathize with any individual who is discouraged and hoping for a better life and believe skilled immigrants have reason to complain; I also believe the Canadian-born perspective is equally valid. Many middle and lower class individuals have been shuffled through the public education system with more emphasis on socialization successes than academic excellence. Canadians also have not had universal access to post-secondary education which is increasingly important to secure good, well-paying jobs. It is not fair to see these individuals as lazy, unproductive or somehow less worthy at having a chance because people tend to base their drive for survival and competitiveness somewhat upon environmental circumstances. People who grow up seeing poverty such as the great depression or hardship - take school and work opportunities much more seriously. If you ever watch a documentary like "Seven-up" you will quickly realize that class-based advantage quickly dictates where someone will end up in life and that students cannot learn to be better than they are or aspire to be more unless their environments and early learning environments change first.

The reality is that the new world of work has brought with it new pressures and not everyone is equally able to compete. Within the past decade we have seen unprecedented rises in credentialism in response to skilled worker availability. In 1990 a physical therapist only needed a university degree and now they need to acquire a professional doctorate. It is not that the requirements of the profession have changed that much but the number of people who are seeking post-secondary training and who want these jobs has expanded. I doubt that anyone has done a successful analysis on how many people re-career throughout their lives and how the narrowing and lengthening of professional credentials is affecting those who are displaced or following non-traditional paths.

We know that thousands are being made redundant due to globalization and offshoring of jobs and that many jobs are being permanently lost through automation. If you carefully examine labour force statistics such as the BLS website you can add up all the projected openings from 2002-2012 in the highest paying professions and you will see that the national needs can be met by one years graduating class. This is disturbing news and reveals how some of the modern economies myths may not be true. Many are brought up believing that those without work are somehow to blame for their condition or that there is work available for everyone who wants it. But I am starting to doubt that this is true especially when so many graduates of college merely return to college to teach others and how much of the economy is supported by processing people through systems and supports. Many individuals in the world want more transparency and a re-examination of labour statistics including unemployment statistics, homeless statistics, job availability by area, the number of people in prisons, the number of people re-schooling etc. I think that there is no simple answer to these problems but I want to emphasize that many of the problems Canada and industrialized societies are faced with today result from lack of opportunity as opposed to outright discrimination of any individual by another. Here are some more links that support the claim that the skills shortage in Canada was/is a myth:
1. http://www.careeractivist.com/my-articles/labour-shortage-myth.htm
2. http://www.welfarewatch.toronto.on.ca/wrkfrw/labmar.htm

My main intent in writing is to offer another perspective on why there is evidence for more worker strife now. Even the demographer David Foot who wrote Boom Bust and Echo mentioned that Canadian born people in their 30s are having a very hard time finding work now and no programs are targeted to this group.

The government aims to target their programs to vulnerable groups because researchers have highlighted their need but I am also concerned for the individual who does not fit into a particular demographic and is also excluded and in need. I think that there is advantage to political interest groups being better able than individuals to fight for access to opportunities; however any group that works to bring social issues to the attention should also be mindful of the larger picture and how many people are suffering from the same problems now. As I mentioned in my dialogue, gaining more transparency about individual success in our new economy is a worthwhile initial goal.

I know my message is long but it contains some worthwhile links for people who want to examine the changing nature of the workforce and how competition is increasing globally. I am especially mindful that many education services are merely businesses who do not offer adequate information on the success or opportunities of their graduates and that our society is becoming more savvy to rising tuition fees and having to take courses that are not strictly career or credential oriented in their programs. Hopefully, with efforts of new immigrants, youth and groups who are experiencing underemployment and unemployment we can effectively lobby for more transparency.

Good luck with your continued efforts on this site. You offer a valuable service that aids people in developing connections in Canadian society and to address issues that affect many. Sincerely,
Jean M. Ontario, Canada.


June 28 - 2005
I noticed your site has an area to report discrimination and mistreatment on it. How does a person access whether they were discriminated against or not? For instance: what if service is slow and awful for everyone? What makes a person able to assume that somehow their experience is that much better or worse than anyone else who is going through a similar process?

If a person belongs to a dominant group and they are hired before a minority is this automatically discrimination? How can this be fairly accessed especially when people are saying networking is now the way to get access to work? This means that nepotism, friendships and belonging to groups will increase your chances of getting employed - all practices that go against equality.

I think that your site is useful and allows people to network but it limits social justice seeking to help people who are newcomers only. Is that not discriminatory against Canadian-born who are also vulnerable and are working below their level of expertise and who experience discrimination in all its forms (age, physical attractiveness, gender, academic achievement bias, accent)?

How does a person justify whether a hiring decision is unfair or not? What if 2 people that were visible minorities had similar qualifications and experience and one was foreign trained and one Canadian educated: Would hiring the foreign trained worker be more fair?

Many people are resentful that special criteria are in place for making sure that quotas are met but these fail to recognize that the workforce will remain biased until baby boomers retire.

Consider the case for Markham, ON. Combined, visible minorities make up over 55.5% of the population. In effect, this makes white European groups the minority and yet hiring quotas do not change with the circumstances. Is this fair or equitable?

Most statistics fail to recognize that dominant ethnicity individuals will earn more because there are a) more of them in the labour market that hold high positions and b) it is reasonable to assume that a higher percentage of dominant ethnicity workers would hold these positions because they had even higher numbers when they were hired and were hired in times where discrimination was not yet socialized out of society eg. 1970s-80s. The demographics of society year by year need to be accounted for and more statistical studies do not account for this.

I think that lack of opportunity is making people seek to belong to special interest groups in order to gain political advantage because competition is becoming more intense. All this has resulted from not appropriately balancing migrant numbers with job needs.

People can lie with statistics easily and I think that many of the assumptions about the success of our economy are based on incomplete facts such as the real unemployment rate (incl discouraged workers, underemployed, people who have returned to school to retrain but would prefer to work if it was available).

It is more useful to focus efforts on analyzing whether our current economy will provide opportunity for our entire labour ready population (considering reduced demand due to globalization and automation) as opposed to looking for scapegoats - we are all in the same boat (Canada) and we have to work together to prevent it from sinking (Malthus).
Jean M. Ontario, Canada.


June 28 - 2005
Jean although you make some valid points, I have to say that the competition thing is a myth big time, it's not competition what we are talking with globalization. What we are talking here is making profits, for instance, business are moved to India because it's way cheaper to keep a workforce there; business keep their labor cost low and profits rise somehow. Have you ever talked to a guy in costumer support in India? Well I've did and always the guy on the phone is not that bright and answers to problems are far from competent, and we are talking big names like IBM, HP, you name it. There is even reports of resume padding from many many H1 visa workers in the States and even with that those guys have kept their jobs.

In conclusion is not about being well prepared is just if you are willing to sell yourself for something close to nothing, again your points are valid at some extension, and really it's good to read your points of view. Just one question, where are the forums of Canadians without jobs asking for equal access to the workforce?, the fast answer is NONE, where are the sites claming that foreigners have taken Canadian jobs away? the answer is NONE too. Most of the forums you find are about Canadian bitching over crappy bosses but a very little percentage claim they haven't gotten a chance even once.

And to the person that says we are spreading hate my answer is: what do you expect when you (Canadians) are the first unwelcoming. In all the years I've been living here in Canada, I've felt everything but welcomed. Sorry most of you took the hard way of life and drop out from school just to make easy money, what else would you expect from life but hardships when all you have is a 7th/12th grade? Do you blame immigrants for having a 5/6 years degrees from a FREE university education? Don't be envious, that envy is have sunk the Canadian economy into low paid, multiple jobs workforce that supports the status quo of a country that doesn't accept is more part of the 3rd world than the first world. That's the only thing taxes work for in Canada: to live a lie, an economy won't grow from lots of people making $6.50 an hour in part time jobs. Of course you accept as normal buying second hand stuff, and I don't point at you but don't try to push that BS down others throats. Keep it for yourselves. Remember you drop out from school and most of your high education come from community colleges, if that is the competition you offer to foreigners you have a lot to lose compared with any diploma from overseas, period.
Andres. Halifax, Nova Scotia.


June 29 - 2005
After landing in Canada when an immigrant approaches a prospective employer for job, the most commonly asked question is," do you have Canadian experience?" This is quite ridiculous. How they expect an immigrant to have the working experience of a country in which he/she has arrived a few day ago. They should understand the dilemma faced by the immigrants who are perturbed emotionally after leaving their native country and face the potential threat of survival in a land of entirely different social and cultural values. Hence this is my humble request to all Canadian employers to critically analyze the current situation of the immigrants, especially the new ones and extend opportunities to them to work in their related fields and to display their vast resources of skills. This gesture of employers will surely earn them rich dividends in the form of enhanced economy. That's all I have to say at this moment.
Rajinder. Scarborough, Ontario.


June 29 - 2005
A very enlightening post on this forum. http://www.canada-city.ca/canada-immigration/posting.php?messageid=4160. Now read the rest and what you'll see are answers of conformism, sure go and work building houses, working in roads freezing to the bone or installing dry walls, while your breathe toxic chemicals or expose yourself to dangers (find about how many rednecks die in Canada, there is where immigrants come to the rescue) you'll make money, but sooner or later the body will write you a check, one you wont be able to cash, you'll end up old with a poor bill of health while those who create the laws are comfy and cozy having vacations in the Caribbean. FACT: the prime minister of Canada doesn't receive the new year at home, that is how great this country is that even the politicians don't spend a minute in it.

And a favor, a friend of mine is asking to all of whom have been saved from migrating to Canada to pray for those who want to get out, get compensation or return to normal lives, thanks in advance.
Andres. Halifax, Nova Scotia.


June 29 - 2005
There is certainly something to be said about the state of the Canadian economy and hyper-competitiveness for upper level jobs. In terms of productivity too, (not actually how hard you work, but how smart you work), Canada has lost out big time, especially to the U.S. Hence the higher unemployment rates here, and of course the quality of jobs being lower here versus there.

But I think Jean, if you realistically look at Canadians you know; people you either live amongst or work with, you can note one thing stands out glaringly for them as opposed to those of us who happen to be non-Caucasian or immigrants. FREEDOM. Freedom to move from job to job or not, as circumstances dictate. Freedom to get on a career track quickly and easily, after graduating from school. Freedom to buy new cars and houses and go on expensive Caribbean and U.S. vacations.

The rate of unemployment and underemployment for immigrants and minorities is much different for us then it is for Canadians. Stats Can numbers prove that. Most Canadians can freely make career decisions based on their desires and personal preferences. We on the other hand are stuck with taking what we can get. Like crumbs off the table.

I know this personally having seen it with my own eyes in front of me at many workplaces where I've been. One girl I used to work with and who is an acquaintance, toiled at an IGA for a while as a cashier when she was in her teens and still in high school. Next thing she was working at Canadian Blood Services making good money while at college, and living at home paying no expenses. Next thing after that she is working at a major oil company in downtown Calgary just like that! She makes more money than I do, yet she has a lower level of education and definitely less work experience. In fact she is buying a brand new home, already drives a new car, and she is barely 25 years old. How did she manage to out-compete all the potential applicants for that job? The answer is that she couldn't have. She didn't have to. Now put an immigrant in her place trying for that job. How many hoops do you think they would make him or her jump through? And then not hire anyway, citing lack of "Canadian Experience"?

Let me illustrate by another personal example. Most if not all of my graduating class at SAIT (Calgary, AB), in 2002 got career track, well paid positions in medium and major sized urban centers in Western Canada. They got these with large companies that pay well and they got them easily within six months, and so did the people before that in 98, 99 along with the most recent class of 2005. I suffered for 16 long months practically unemployed after graduating in April 2002, and ended up having to take a job in a tiny town in Northern Alberta with unfriendly people and a low quality of life. I was pretty much ready to give up and go drive a bus for a living just before that happened. I lost 16 valuable months for nothing. I also worked for what amounts to a small rural independent company that paid below average with bad co-workers. I took it anyway because I did not wish to waste my skills.

I am able to keep track of what all of these grads do through an interactive forum set up for that purpose. Almost all of them without fail are enjoying the benefits of living a well financed lifestyle doing what they want, when they want to do it. One girl quits her job just so she can go plan her wedding. It was a well paying job with a network station in Red Deer. Another moves from job to job as her lifestyle suits her and she has no problem getting employment. Still others are working in Calgary, or Edmonton or Kelowna. They barely have 2 - 4 years of this so-called "Canadian Experience". Are you telling me they have more skills or are better able to compete in this job market?

And my industry (media) is one of the most competitive compared to others. Yet these people breezed through that employment market with barely a bump in their career paths. Many of them, I considered to be ill suited for their jobs because they're immature, abnoxious and self serving to say the least. Yet those Canadians hiring them had no hesitation to bring them on board.

It's very easy sometimes to rationalize away the problems of this country and put the blame on the victims of racism, or to explain everything in stark economic terms or job markets. But the hard reality is that Canadians don't like immigrants, or minorities. They pretend to like them to keep up appearances. When you look at the world like that, it's going to carry over to the job markets where these same people make life changing decisions about who to hire for a job. For Canadians, it works like this: when the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem you see is going to be a nail.
Matt G., Alberta


June 29 - 2005
To Jean of Ontario,
You must be a true blooded Canadian since "you don't get it". Most of the people in these forum are complaining mainly of one thing-being duped by none other than your Canadian Government.

Put simply, we are now on the same boat because HMS Canada posted for officers when what it actually needs are able bodied ordinary seamen. So whose fault is it? Certainly not us immigrants. But your government and the uninformed, moralizing locals like you.
Joe. Toronto, Ontario.


June 30 - 2005
I have been following this forum for some time now. Honestly, stories told here are very disturbing. I am simply shocked to here about such discrimination and breaking of human rights.

The fraud that the Canadian Government is pulling on professionals from around the world is disgusting, but the regular Canadian people have me wondering about the world. I am an immigrant from Eastern Europe in the U.S. and I socialize with other immigrants in my town. I have never heard of systematic discrimination and lack of opportunities. Never. It even seems that illegal immigrants have more opportunities and rights than the immigrants do in Canada. I have heard of such discrimination in Western European countries and England. There, minorities and immigrants are treated even worse.

What is wrong with Canadians? Are they treating all immigrants like that or only visible minorities (based on race)? I have not seen any people from Eastern Europe posting on this forum. Do I assume that they are not facing the same kind of problems?

The purpose of my posting is to let you know that I empathize with all of you. It takes great courage to leave your home and fight for a new future in a foreign land. To come to such a negative place, is a tragedy. The US-for the most part-is not like that. Every country has good and bad sides, however, systematic discrimination and humiliation of other races, nationalities, genders, and religions is a shameful mark on the Canadian society. Your voices should be heard around the world. I am aware that you do not have resources to bring this issue to wide public. I will make sure that everyone I know finds out about Canadian "tolerant" and advanced culture. Best wishes
Azra. USA.


June 30 - 2005
To Jean from Ontario,
It is racism; plain racism. You may like to philosophize it in a typical Canadian way of trying to hide the forest by staring at the tree. But the fact is that it is racism and you are a typical responsive of it. You just wrote (although I am quite positive that you, you are not aware of it) the most glaring racist explanation of the plight of the immigrants. You are basically telling us to accept to be second-class citizens in this country!!

I am not going to respond point by point to your convoluted and obtuse thinking that talks much and says nothing. I am going to ask you this: "How do you explain, by your convoluted logic, that someone could be doing the same job for more than a year through a staffing company as a temp because the Canadian employer does not want to hire him?"

What do you call it when at the same company hire at ones the most delinquent Canadian who is doing a lousy job the next day of him or her appearing in the company through the same staffing firm? What do you call when this same company refuses to consider the immigrant who has proven, himself, to be capable to do a better work?

I have seen and experienced enough blatant racial discrimination and can prove in any court if there were respectable legal system in your country. I have been working through staffing companies since I came to Canada years ago and have seen and can document all the racial practices rampant in your country. Where does job competition figure out in this situation when the immigrant will keep doing this job forever?

Now, let me ask you this? Do you know that most of your Canadian companies have already been bought by American firms, from Tim Horton to Future Shop, to oil and gas and food marketing to engineering firms? I advise you to do a little research on this subject so you may know where your country is heading instead of wasting your "valuable" time rationalizing the most blatant and inhuman racial discrimination being practiced against immigrants in Canada.
Qaism. Canada.


June 30 - 2005
Dear forum readers:
People have different experiences and that one perspective is not necessarily any more valid than another. I know Canadian born majority group members who are not fairing well in todays' economy as well as visible minority newcomers. Many people who are being displaced from their old careers are starting out again at the bottom. Credentials rise when there is increased competition.

I think it is a crime to treat people as members of a demographic group as opposed to considering their individual circumstances and believe this practice is destructive. It invalidates one individuals experience as being invalid if it is not typical. I think that there are problems in being fair and what constitutes being fair changes depending on who you ask.

Saying that a person should be hired based on qualifications becomes tricky if there are many qualified applicants and most exceed the minimum qualifications ie) a PhD with 5 years experience is hired but only a masters with 1 year experience is required.

How do we set hiring quotas based on group? If we assume "being bright" is equally distributed amongst groups then should the proportions of people gaining access to skilled positions reflect population proportions? What if a particular group is not represented proportionally as having achieved higher credentials should members of this group be accepted to positions with lower qualifications?

Unless networking and nepotism are outlawed as forms of gaining access to jobs then how can society negate the discrimination resulting from group cohesion? I have more questions that answers but do think that the answer is not simple or one-sided.
Jean M. Toronto, Canada.


June 30 - 2005
Dear forum leaders:
I appreciate your patience in posting my perspective and am glad that I had the chance to participate on your forum. Due to some of the remarks on the site that are inflammatory against me, I have to say that I think that there are people who are assuming I am racist without stating specifically what it is that I said that makes me so. This is troubling. If a person cannot defend what makes them a "supposed" racist then does the mere act of being labelled one make it true? In my mind it definitely does not. I believe the comment Joe made that Canada needed trade workers and not educated knowledge workers was true - and this misinformation resulted in hardship for many. I definitely do not blame immigrants for this situation or Canadian born citizens but do blame our government.

I agree with the many posters that the government policies are wrong and that new skilled worker visas should be tied to job offers so that there is not an oversupply of skilled workers in Canada. Some would call this racist but it restricts people from all groups (even my own) for taking opportunities that should go to the people who are underemployed in Canada first, including your readers.

If you look at all the commonweath countries you will see claims of skills shortages that are not supported by the local population. Perhaps the world bank and other investor lending schemes are behind some of the current policies to support globalisation and falling wages in industrialized nations? If I was a conspiracy theorist I would tend to believe this.

In any event, I do not want to upset your frequent readers and subject myself to abuse. I think that you will soon see other sites on the net that address different perspectives of the working class populace and I will post there. I think that there are a lot of questions about why societies are all following free market guidelines and selling off public services and who is driving this trend. That is the real question from my point of view. Best wishes on your site.
Jean M. Toronto.


June 30 - 2005
Dear Jean, now you are talking nonsense, really don't try to bring fog to the situation just to mislead or try to justify the injustices in Canada, what happens in Canada doesn't translate/relate to the rest of the world opposed to what you say; Canada stopped playing a role in the world's scenario a long time ago. You have to pat yourself on the shoulder for putting mediocre guys as your leaders, they really have isolated and transformed Canada into a wasteland of human rights and mankind indifference.

Thanks to the guy from the US for spreading the word, the world should know about the apartheid, if South Africa caught world's attention Canada should too. The day immigration officers stop affording the way of life they have for taking advantage of immigrants the day things will change, and not because they would put any thought into it, the fear of losing their status quo sure will move them.

July 1st is Canada day, you won't see that many Canadian flags waving in front of houses and apartments like a 4th of July in the States, this fact remembers that being part of Canada is more a disgrace than something to be proud of.
Andres. Halifax, Nova Scotia.


TAKEN FROM: http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/forum_2.asp






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