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Orginally posted by Nostradamus


Can we say the same of the Indian immigrants in Canada. What % wud say that they r proud Canadians ? Half of them still wud run off to India if the situation improves or they get better jobs than what they already have. Most of them, though living in Canada still crib about the lack of facilities (jis thali mein khatein hain usi mein chhed karte hain).

If we can even emulate 20% of what Parsis did, we wud be a successful community anywhere in the world. Canada has done its job of giving immigration, the rest is upto us. It is our responsibility to work hard and become a productive part of Canada.

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Isn't fighting for bettering the lot of our people good? Isn't it being part of the survival of the fittest?

It is unfortunate that those people who are well-settled & a part of this forum are not joining to submit this memorandum to the govt. While we talk about us people not greeting each other in the mall, isn't it the same scenario here?

Thanks & regards.

Rajan.

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Dear Charlie,

First and foremost let me tell u that I don't have a low attitude towards Indians. I am an Indian and I treat fellow Indians with respect. Nowhere have i indicated that I don't like Indians. However I don't like the way some of them behave. Whatever I have referred to in the previous posts is the "general attitude" that Indians have. And I am sure that most of u wud agree with it. Just by having an ostrich approach towards the whole thing does not do us any good. Whats wrong in admitting the truth - however bitter it might be ?

I know Parsis came to Gujarat but wasn't that a part of India ? Havn't they moved off from there to other parts of India. Anyways their numbers are not anything compared to our population in Canada.

And what was the "Parsi reception" anyways ? Were they garlanded or given the red carpet ? They just arrived like the others (Jews, Iranis etc). When does Canada ask u to change your culture ? Its crap. If that was the case u wudn't have had Indian food, festivals, places of worship etc. there. But obviously u shud be smart enough to change with the times - While in Rome do as the Romans. U can't expect to get a job in Canada, if u land up for the interview in a dhoti/kurta/topi and speak Hindi. C'mon guys this is not changing yr culture. What wud have happened if the Parsis did not try to learn Hindi / Gujarati while dealing with the local people in the name of preserving their culture? They wud have been nowhere. Please don't forget that the Parsis always tried to mingle with the locals and not stand out as a minority.

I am not against having an attachment to one's motherland - its natural. But what about the country u have chosen to become a citizen of ? Don't u have any obligation towards the country which has accepted u when u requested them to grant citizenship ? As u have very rightly pointed out in your post - the Parsis have equal love for Gujarat, how many of the Indian immigrants have equal love for Canada ? From the posters that I have come across on this forum, I don't think there r many. The Parsis have been accepted well because they have accepted India as their home for all practical puposes. Once u start accepting Canada as your future home I guess most of the problems which u guys r facing right now wud vanish.

Let me tell u nothing much will come of Puru's memorandum - nobody can dictate to the government ? U can't blame others for what u havn't achieved personally in life ? And he is not fighting for the rights of others - its just that since u can't do it alone u try to have more people in your group to make yourself visible and vocal. Had he been very well settled himself (career wise) and even then championed for the cause of others it wud have been different. I am not saying that fighting for your rights is wrong but fighting for the "wrong" things is definitely wrong. Tomorrow u guys might just say that though u r earning 50K CAD u still live below the poverty line and hence u need better jobs which can help u to live life "kingsize".

Anyways, what are we trying to achieve by submitting the memorandum -

Better Jobs ? (If you were not able to secure a better job as it is, you can only hope to ask for job reservations),

Greater Salary ? (No matter how much coersion is there from the government no private employer would pay anybody more than his/her worth and how can u decide what is a "good" salary),

Job Stability ? (If you cannot live up to the productivity expectations of the job u r occupying, nobody in the world can promise u stability)

Recognition of skills and experience ? (Don't u think that the natives who know French and know the local market have always a plus over u no matter how much experience u may have ? And BTW, every applicant feels that he is best suited for the job, however only one is selected out of so many. No applicant can know the job more than the employer and so we will have to leave that decision to him only)

Food for thought - And if all the 4 above r not provided to the native Canadians, don't u think its unfair to demand them for yourselves. And wud the government ever consider granting something to the immigrants which it is not providing to its natural citizens ?


Dear Rajan,

U can become a crusader but u need to have a cause. Ever wondered why u r not receiving the support u expected for this cause ? B'cos of all the reasons that i have given above.

Survival of the fittest means that u evolve with the changing times. U try to make the necessary changes important for your survival yourself and not try to force others to change in order to help u survive.

In the life cycle of career building we come across 3 important milestones which occur in this order - 1. Survival 2. Stability 3. Growth
By seeing the memorandum it is evident that people want to skip the first 2 rungs and jump onto the last rung. Herein lies the problem. Evolution wud be evident if you accept the circumstances and be ready live thru each of the 3 stages (unless u get a lucky break !!)


Bye guys !!

Dear Friend,

I will comment only on the part where you gave your opinion about the outcome of the memorandum.

You have issued a verdict based on your own individual perceptions but that is not the FACT. In a democratic system of rule in any country since it is always the Government which has the constitutional authority to introduce any new program or amend existing ones, people could and have always approached them. Canada is not a military dictatorship, so what makes this democratically elected representive body of the people so inaccessible or non-negotiable?? We are on the right path in this case by deciding to approach them.

Why is it that the same people who were unsuccessful in India, after landing here always blame the Government there for all their miseries? But here it is always the other way round for them. Why this double standard in approach and thought?? What a hypocrisy!

Now it is always better to have a group or association of people sharing the same ideas to promote the common cause. I call that collective leadership. One does not form an alliance for personal problems. This is a mass problem and hence the need to unite/form a team to further our cause. Tbis is exactly how in every democratic country people fight for redressal of their grievances.

Job reservations, greater salary,job stability etc- Where from these ideas occurred to you? Are these things mentioned in the memorandum?? How do you know exactly that we are planning such things? Couldn't there be more innovative and progressive alternatives to be asked from the Government? Let the discussion start with them and we shall propose after due discussions at the right platform. No friend, you have jumped to your own individually drawn conclusions but that is again not the FACT.

Anyway, I would like to thank you for your inputs and patience and wish you all the best in your endeavours.

Regards
Puru

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Puru

Dear Puru,

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Job reservations, greater salary,job stability etc- Where from these ideas occurred to you? Are these things mentioned in the memorandum?? How do you know exactly that we are planning such things? Couldn't there be more innovative and progressive alternatives to be asked from the Government? Let the discussion start with them and we shall propose after due discussions at the right platform. No friend, you have jumped to your own individually drawn conclusions but that is again not the FACT.

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You have issued a verdict based on your own individual perceptions but that is not the FACT.

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Why is it that the same people who were unsuccessful in India, after landing here always blame the Government there for all their miseries? But here it is always the other way round for them. Why this double standard in approach and thought?? What a hypocrisy

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This is a mass problem and hence the need to unite/form a team to further our cause.

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Hello Friend,

Thanks for the reply which seems to have stretched to a personal level this time. So with due permission from the moderator of this forum I will reply you in the same manner you addressed me, although it is not my usual way of writing.

YES! There are alternatives that could be mutually worked out between the government,private sector and the qualified immigrants.But I said that they will be discussed with the right people at the right time and at the right platform, not here. They are not supposed to be a source of entertainment or academic information for casual readers or for providing food for cyber warriors to engage in endless and mindless verbal duel. If you are representing the PM officially, I will certainly fulfill your demand since then whatever I tell you will be conveyed to the PM.

YES! Your views are certainly your own and do not reflect the actual situation. You have given a highly generalized view with no respect or regard for other fellow immigrants' sentiments, beliefs and convictions.

Let me remind you again what I posted here before : All the men and women, in any society, are not of the same mind,capacity, or of the same power to do things, they must have different ideals, and we have no right to sneer at any ideal.

Let everyone do the best he can fo realising his own ideal. Nor is it right that I should be judged by your standard or you by mine.The apple tree should not be judged by the standard of the oak, nor the oak by that of the apple. To judge the apple tree you must take the apple standard,and for the oak, its own standard.

You also have no right to ask me why I am still in Canada. Did I or anyone in this forum ask you why you left India?? Well it does not take a rocket scientist's mind to figure out these questions. My point was if people blame government of India for their failures back home, why do they change and are hesitant to blame the government policies here for their same failures?? I do not feel strongly for the government of India but I think you have placed yourself as the representative of Canadian government.

As regards generating mass support, let me tell you this forum has generated mass awareness and informed people of what's going on here. Within a span of hardly two months this discussion has reached the levels where it should. I posted my email id here long time back. How do you know that I have not received support messages from other community members? How do you know that I have not been discussing with some media people to champion this cause? You are again judging based upon only this site's viewers which is again not the FACT.

And again on the lighter side, prophet Nostradamus, please post the list of your past predictions which came true.

Best Wishes

Puru

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Puru

Nostradamus,

The fact that the Canadian govt. itself has started accepting that there is a problem with the integration of immigrants into the Canadian workplace is enough reason for the need for this memorandum.

It will put pressure on the government definitely. It could result in a change of policies & this is the right time since the Canadian industry also needs people in the workplace. Now in what field they require people is to be seen. If they make changes in their immigration policy, so that they allow only those people whom they require, that is fine by me.

The current points system is based on the demand for professions in Canada. After coming here if you find that you don't get called for interviews or simply don't get a job since you don't have Canadian experience, that sucks. The world is a global marketplace & many of us have exposure dealing with many multi-national companies. Do not see a reason why our job experience in India cannot be useful in Canada.

While integrating into the Canadian way of life is important, we contribute to the Canadian economy & culture in our own way. The success of Indians in US is ample proof that people with experience in India can contribute to the growth of the private industries. I myself know of many people who have gone to US from India & have done extremely well.

I can understand certain professions being regulated & people having to upgrade their skills.

Even if the memorandum does not achieve what it should, no problem. We will atleast have the satisfaction of trying. Nobody is trying to force people into joining this memorandum nor is this some kind of terrorist movement. One need not sit back thinking that nothing will happen. This is simply an appeal to unite & help each other for improving the situation here.

Who told you that we are not striving hard ? When I go back to India, I will go back with the satisfaction of having tried hard. Not necessary for me to be successful in everything. Each has his own way of working out things.

All the best.

Thanks & regards.

Rajan.

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