Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
I don't think Canada can afford to do what the US did i.e. release $700B into the economy overnight.
The US can do that, we can't.
And even though they did - where are the results?
The US economy is getting worse every day, despite almost a trillion dollars of cash injection.
Do you seriously believe that the package they announced is already delivered into the market ????????
I would say no. They are also injecting the money into the market very cautiously. They haven't spend all of the $700B yet. I heard they gave a package to Citigroup of around $20B which eventually saved that group from going bankrupt & add more devasting effect the market. May be they will still rescue some of the bank in the near future like that. Auto sector is still trying to get hold of some money from them to be saved from that same stimulus package. But as you might have read that they are not giving them without a good action plan being submitted.
But most important part is the US people are quite confident right now that their government is working on the problem. Not like our government who comes out sleeping from the election campaign which was totally dumped on our heads just to fulfill their own personal agendas & then goes on delivering false statements.
Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
There may be some very limited tax relief, but by and large, most households will not see much improvement.
How can you say that ????? Ask a person who was laid off & then got government exclusive help for getting better training to work out his skill which would eventually help him getting a better job in near future. That is call INVESTING. Ask a person who was looking for a job being laid off & was offered a job by the municipality for building roads & highways. Ask a person who was looking for clients for his business but was not able to find much due to lack of infrastructure & facilities in his city. Ask a person who lost $40k value of his mutual funds which he has with his bank due to market loss.
The most important thing Patrick is that at this point of time, its f***ing useless fighting for power in the government. Do you believe that cutting the aid of opposition party was going to save us from economic downturn. It was totally a political move to cut opposition parties stand & clear them up.
This government is totally working for satisfying their personal agendas...
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i..........rock........!!!!!
Posts: 5775
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 04-12-08 16:42:50
Location: God's own country
Posted on: 04-12-08 16:42:50
Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
What makes you think that ordinary people are going to get any money?
There may be some very limited tax relief, but by and large, most households will not see much improvement.
I disagree.
You need to infuse cash into the economy (in a wise way) to stimulate the economy, so that employers start hiring people and start manufacturing and selling goods. If we leave it the way it is, everything will start to die and immigrants will start leaving Canada and this is going to worsen the situation for the already existing old people in canada. We canot be in isolation as we need to sell our goods outside the country to keep it running. What you say will hold good if we consume all that we produce and not in a global economy.
Throwing money / bailout at the Auto sector will not work for sure. We donot need that many cars these days to be produced. Cutting some jobs there and we need to find new jobs to be created.
In CNN yest., They still said that we need an abundance of X-Ray Technicians, Oil rig workers etc... whom Americans still canot find to fill jobs and hence we need to seek to train the laid off workers to train to fill in the vacant position. We simply canot be there without an economic stimulus package.
Hope this helps
Peace by TK
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I am a Gents and not a Ladies.
Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
Maybe because it takes time to prepare a budget, balance all the demands, resources and requirements and come up with something that's sensible, doable and achievable.
I guess we had a Fiscal budget update last week. That is when I guess they were suppose to balance all the demands, resources and requirements. Weren't they ??????
For an update the market is 300 point down & is below 8000 point as of 3:45 pm. Everybody is selling extensively because of no confidence on this government.
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i..........rock........!!!!!
Quote:That system is already in place.
Originally posted by irock
How can you say that ????? Ask a person who was laid off & then got government exclusive help for getting better training to work out his skill which would eventually help him getting a better job in near future. That is call INVESTING.
You have EI.
You have OSAP
You have RESP
You have RRSP loans
Quote:
Ask a person who was looking for a job being laid off & was offered a job by the municipality for building roads & highways. Ask a person who was looking for clients for his business but was not able to find much due to lack of infrastructure & facilities in his city.
That system is already in place as well.
Govt employs millions or people, directly and indirectly.
And the govt has said that they will be making significant investments in infrastructure, even to the extent of running a deficit.
I am not disagreeing with the need for an economic package - I am just amazed at the impatience of the opposition and some members of the public.
Quote:And how is that the govt's problem?
Ask a person who lost $40k value of his mutual funds which he has with his bank due to market loss.
You expect the govt to help with that? Seriously?
Quote:And the opposition is simply leveraging this situation to line the pockets of their interest groups and vote banks, like the auto companies.
The most important thing Patrick is that at this point of time, its f***ing useless fighting for power in the government. Due you believe that cutting the aid of opposition party was going to save us from economic downturn. It was totally a political move to cut opposition parties stand & clear them up.
Quote:And the opposition is different?
This government is totally working for satisfying their personal agendas...
Quote:You are simply re-stating my points, not disagreeing at all.
Originally posted by tamilkuravan
I disagree.
You need to infuse cash into the economy (in a wise way) to stimulate the economy, so that employers start hiring people and start manufacturing and selling goods. We simply canot be there without an economic stimulus package.
I am not against a stimulus package, I'm not a libertarian for God's sake.
All I am saying is give the govt the time to work out the package, rather than simply rushing like fools and start handing bailout packages to whoever asks for it.
Like you, I am against the auto-sector bailout.
If you are a business and make products that the public doesn't buy, how is that the govt's problem?
If you are a business and made contracts with your workers' union many years ago to keep paying health care and pension benefits until Kingdom Come, how is that the govt's problem?
If you as a mutual fund or a bank bought bad investments and took leveraged risks, how is that govt's problem?
If you as a pooled pension fund bought bad investments and staked the hard-earned savings of pensioners into toxic investments without fully appreciating counterparty risk, how is that the govt's problem?
None of the the above 4 deserve any bailout money, at least not from the tax payer.
Yes, we need investments in infrastructure, targeted job training programs, tax cuts, etc.
Give the govt the time they are asking for to come up with this.
They have asked for 3 months - give them that time.
If the opposition were responsible, they would work with the government, come up with proposals, challenge and counter balance the govt's plan so that in the end the interests of the country is served.
Not try to topple a newly elected govt and play these games.
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"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."
-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"
Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
You have EI.
You have OSAP
You have RESP
You have RRSP loans
Patrick this system is already in place. But its not effectively implemented at this point of time. Only few people right now are being granted the funds for improving their skills & supporting them. And believe me they really have to work hard to get those benefits.
Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
Quote:
Originally posted by irock
Ask a person who lost $40k value of his mutual funds which he has with his bank due to market loss.
And how is that the govt's problem?
You expect the govt to help with that? Seriously?
I guess if the bank goes bankrupt or has a heavy loss due to mortgage foreclosure's, the funds with them are also going to go down.
Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
And the opposition is simply leveraging this situation to line the pockets of their interest groups and vote banks, like the auto companies.
May I ask here that who started it in the first place ???? Harper was the one who called for an election. Harper was the one announcing the fiscal budget & cutting the aids for the opposition party. Due you think that the opposition party would sit silently & keep on suffering that. They gave him what he deserved. But lucky Mr Harper again got away with the GG closing the parliament.
Quote:
Originally posted by pratickm
Like you, I am against the auto-sector bailout.
If you are a business and make products that the public doesn't buy, how is that the govt's problem?
If you are a business and made contracts with your workers' union many years ago to keep paying health care and pension benefits until Kingdom Come, how is that the govt's problem?
Totally agree with your comments.....
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i..........rock........!!!!!
Quote:The mutual funds are different from the retail bank.
Originally posted by irock
I guess if the bank goes bankrupt or has a heavy loss due to mortgage foreclosure's, the funds with them are also going to go down.
Each of the major banks has an investment arm, which maintains the mutual funds.
Your deposits in the retail bank are secured by the CDIC.
Your mutual funds (equity ones, at least) are at the mercy of the markets and neither the retail bank nor the govt can/should help with that.
Bailing out banks and/or mutual fund companies (using tax payers' money) because they loaned out retail customers' money in exchange of mortgage backed commercial paper that went bad (Lehman Bros., Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, etc.) is just wrong.
Their senior executives are guilty of poor business practices and should be fired (not by the govt but by the shareholders).
The shareholders themselves who "own" the bank have been negligent because they haven't been reading the financial statements carefully enough, or if they have been, have either not understood what's going on or chose to ignore it.
They deserve to see their stock values go down (as has been happening).
The govt must share the blame because the regulators have been asleep at the wheel.
The regulation bodies are either missing, ineffective, or sleeping.
This is esp. true of the US, who created and perpetuated this poison in the first place.
So yes, the govt is half to be blamed, but they cannot/should not redeem themselves by buying out their guilt (via bailout).
Quote:True, but maybe I'm just cynical.
May I ask here that who started it in the first place ???? Harper was the one who called for an election. Harper was the one announcing the fiscal budget & cutting the aids for the opposition party. Due you think that the opposition party would sit silently & keep on suffering that. They gave him what he deserved. But lucky Mr Harper again got away with the GG closing the parliament.
I think the opposition is seeing this as a golden opportunity to get into govt and promote the interests of their lobby groups, donors and vote banks.
They think they can use economic stimulus as an excuse and veil to line the pockets of their primary stakeholders.
I don't believe they have the best interests of the economy at heart.
It is a sad situation - the country is caught between the devil and the "shaitan".
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"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."
-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"
Looking at the infighting and the hap-hazzard handling of the Liberals internal matters, I am sure glad there is no coalition at the center.
1. Inspite of knowing that Dion is not popular with the voters, they inked the deal projecting him as the PM.
2. Now looking at the backlash and public opinion primarily that they dont want to see Dion as PM, they are planning to replace him without proper election.
3. Dion keeps changing colors everyday - last week he was jumping with joy at the prospect of becoming the PM, today he is talking of stepping down immediately.
4. Micheal Ignatief is suddenly being projected as the new leader without full election process.
5. Bob Rae, as expected will make it an ugly election.
IMO, Liberals are gone for good. Irrespective of who is the new leader, I dont think they will comeback for sometime in the future. To top it all of, McGuinty keeps distancing himself from federal politics. It is of importance that not once in the past election and in the current instability he has openly supported the liberals campaign.
It is a good opportunity for Layton and May to gain some ground in replacing Liberals.
I feel both India and Canada are passing through similar political scenarios - not a single leader who can unite the entire country.
Just my 2 cents + 2 paise.
Hiren
