Posted on: 04-03-04 08:41:00
For a newly wed guy like you BL it is not surprising to know that you were awake at 3 in the morning..............but sitting and writing/editing a posting on CD at that time?????? That really amuses me!!! Being a public forum, I wont write any jokes that I am reminded of at this time!!
Yes, your suggestion to have a more productive discussion by addressing the problem and suggesting changes/solutions is definitely what we should do. Or if not addressing a problem in particular but in general, and suggesting an overall change too might be a good idea.
However, gotta leave for office now, and this requires a serious thought and better framed post, so may be tonight or on the weekend!
Meanwhile, stay healthy!
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Chandresh
Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!
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Orginally posted by chandresh
For a newly wed guy like you BL it is not surprising to know that you were awake at 3 in the morning..............but sitting and writing/editing a posting on CD at that time?????? That really amuses me!!!
Well, what do you expect? The wife's still in India awaiting her papers.
Bahut nainsafi hai! Anyays, till she comes, I'm married to cd.
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Are you there?
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Orginally posted by BlueLobster
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I for one would prefer a system where health cost is subsidized, but not free (so that it is not misused) but it available at full cost if someone needs it faster than others and can afford it .
Ok, how about making this discussion EVEN more productive this time around? If you're unhappy with healthcare, what in your opinion can be done about it? Let's target specific problems and try to think of solutions. And in as much detail as possible please.
e.g.
Problem \
Crowded emergency waiting rooms and Long wait-times.
Solution
a) Charge a nominal fee so that people who don't have real emergencies won't crowd the waiting rooms. (Elaborate on what you think the amount should be, while bearing in mind people who may not be able to afford this.)
I'm eager to see what we come up with. Maybe we can assimilate the ideas later on and write the Ministry of health a letter (cc'd to publications like the Toronto Star Tabloid, CBC et al.). May not alter the course of history, but we may nudge the first piece of the domino that will.
Well BL, as far as I know money is not a problem for Ontario Health Care. 40% of our tax dollars goes in to healthcare. Mis-management of funds and curruption is bringing down our health care system.... just read this article and you may get some idea what is going on with our healthcare system. Hospital a ready to accept any money but they don't want to commit themselves....
Hospitals oppose health bill
Warn it could discourage volunteers
Smitherman says amendments on way
THERESA BOYLE
QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU
Proposed legislation to strengthen medicare in Ontario could have the opposite impact and could deter people from volunteering on hospital boards, warns the Ontario Hospital Association.
"We believe it may have a detrimental impact on the health-care system," states the OHA's submission to an all-party committee studying the proposed legislation, a copy of which was obtained by the Star.
Bill 8, the Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act, aims to inject more accountability into the health system by making hospitals sign performance agreements in return for cash from the province.
The agreements would require hospitals to meet targets on access, quality and safety in return for cash. For example, they would have to agree to hire more nurses and to reduce waiting lists for cardiac care, cancer care and hip and knee replacements.
The OHA is opposed to a section of the bill that would allow the ministry to bypass volunteer hospital boards and impose orders directly on hospital CEOs in cases where the institutions fail to meet expectations.
"What our member hospitals and their trustees have universally told us is that, as currently drafted, this bill falls short in achieving the stated objective of preserving medicare, and may in fact negatively impact their ability to provide needed health-care services to their communities," the paper says.
The OHA argues the legislation would marginalize the voice of the local community and ultimately serve to diminish accountability. It warns that individuals from the community will be reluctant to volunteer to serve as trustees on hospital boards.
"Our members tell us that as a result of provisions in Bill 8 that undermine local voluntary governance, individuals from the community will be unwilling to become involved in the work of their hospitals," the submission states. "Stripped of their authority to make decisions about hospital services in their communities, they will largely be relegated to an `advisory' role."
But Health Minister George Smitherman argued the new legislation is less intrusive when it comes to the province intervening in the affairs of hospitals.
"Some people have said that this is a level of power that ministers of health have never had. (That's) really very ridiculous," he said. "Under the Public Hospitals Act, as you very well know, the minister of health has extraordinary powers that have been used quite often to be able to appoint supervisors, which is essentially a takeover of hospitals."
Smitherman said his government has been working "pretty aggressively" behind the scenes to address concerns and will be introducing amendments to the bill next week that should help appease hospitals.
On Feb. 24, Smitherman announced a $385-million bailout of hospitals — $50 million of which is earmarked for hiring more nurses and improving their working conditions.
"We're linking funding to the results that Ontarians want and need — and that includes improved nursing care," Premier Dalton McGuinty told a meeting of the Ontario Nurses' Association yesterday.
He acknowledged the "skepticism" and "cynicism" nurses feel when it comes to the province's handling of the profession and said his government is intent on winning their trust.
"Now I know that previous governments made funding announcements that made headlines but made little difference for you working on the front lines. We're working with nurses to rebuild the foundations of the profession," he said.
Thanks and regards.
Biomed
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"Change before you have to" : Jack Welch
As I mentioned before that our health care system is going down because of mis management and corruption. Hospitals want to take our hard earned money without committing themselves to provide better health care services. In my opinion Government should appoint one Supervisor for each hospital to supervise and control spending habits of the hospital.
Following articles shows how aggressively hospitals are resisting to make a promise that they will do what they are suppose to do… it clearly shows that hospitals don’t care about patients and quality of services.. they just care about money..
Thanks and regards.
Biomed
Mar. 10, 2004. 01:00 AM
Health bill still angers hospitals
Say amendments don't go far enough
Unapologetic Smitherman stands firm
CAROLINE MALLAN
QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU
The Ontario government has failed in its bid to appease hospital boards in coming up with dozens of changes to a proposed law that is meant to strengthen medicare.
The amendments tabled yesterday at a legislative committee examining Bill 8, the Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act, give hospitals 60 days to reach agreements with the health ministry aimed at ensuring better accountability and results from hospitals in exchange for billions of dollars in taxpayers' money.
If no deal can be reached, the health ministry can impose a deal on the hospital board — a major bone of contention for the hospitals, which insist their autonomy is being threatened.
Health Minister George Smitherman was unapologetic , saying it is reasonable to expect hospital boards to commit to being accountable for the "precious $11 billion" in funding that they are given each year.
"At the end of the day this is about patients, it's about making sure that we evolve to a health-care system that is patient-focused and patient-centred, rather than stakeholder-focused and stakeholder-centred."
The planned act requires hospitals to sign the performance agreements to meet targets on access, quality and safety. For example, they would have to agree to hire more nurses and to reduce waiting lists for cardiac care, cancer care and hip and knee replacements.
The Ontario Hospital Association has launched an aggressive campaign opposing sections of the bill that would allow the ministry to impose the agreements in the first place and bypass volunteer hospital boards and impose orders directly on hospital CEOs in cases where the institutions fail to live up to their end of the deal.
They were widely expecting those provisions to be tempered or eliminated when the amendments were tabled, but OHA President Hilary Short expressed disappointment yesterday that the minister of health retains the power to deal directly with hospital CEOs, imposing orders on them directly if they fail to comply with directives.
"They don't go far enough to address the concerns of our hospitals," Short said in an interview, adding the role of voluntary hospital boards will be diminished under the proposed plan, which was referred to the committee process after first reading last fall.
The OHA is now calling upon the government to commit to more public hearings on Bill 8 after it receives second reading when the Legislature resumes this month.
"The amendments are very complicated and don't go far enough in our view to support voluntary governance," Short said.
But Smitherman said his government has responded to many of the concerns that were expressed, including giving hospitals more time to negotiate performance agreements with the province.
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"Change before you have to" : Jack Welch
Following BLs suggestion, I am putting down some of my thoughts how healthcare can perhaps be improved in Ontario. I am saying Ontario, because it seems different provinces have different systems thought most of it might be same.
I am not touching the topic of extra doctors/nurses etc. but what I am writing below will in turn help the govt to be able to get more professionals in the field to serve the residents.
1. Have both public and private facilities. Citizens should have a choice either to use public health care at no charge or subsidized rates, or pay to private clinics/doctors as per market norms set through a governing body.
2. The governing body should be the final authority to specify the minimum standards of healthcare and a range of charges for services performed like consulting fee for a GP or a specialist etc.
3. Set up public clinics in neighbourhoods and the services can be used only by the residents of that neighbourhood, unless it is recommended by either the neighbourhood clinic of the resident which is unable to provide any service for genuine reason, or by the governing body. Residence to be decided on the basis of address on the ID/healthcard issued by government.
4. These neighbourhood clinics should provide basic healthcare which need not be referred to a specialist, and also dispense medication. Consultation can be free or with a charge of say $7 to $10 per visit. (eg. In Singapore, such clinics charge $7 per visit, and dispense medication at a price of $1 per medicine per course, upto a maximum of $4 & 11; therefore each visit cost a minimum of $7 and maximum of $11). This subsidized charge is both to increase the awareness that medical help costs the state, and to deter people from misusing the same.
5. Specialists to be referred to when problem cannot be treated by clinic and there should be a maximum time limit/ visits after which specialist attendance should be sought.
6. Visit to specialist should NOT be free. This is to avoid unnecessary reference to them, and obviously therefore, to avoid long queues.
7. In case of hospitalization, again, the patient should be able to choose public or private hospitals. However, public hospitals may be used when not referred by a specialist at full charges/private hospital charges. However, patient referred by public specialist to be given preference over private admissions in case of capacity utilizations.
8. Hospitalization to be subsidized, or made free depending on type of service needed (crude example could be say a heart attack patient can be treated free, but childbirth can be charged). In case the public hospitals are full, the patient can have himself admitted in a private hospital the cost of which can be borne by the public health department. This rule will deter public hospitals from passing off the patients to private hospitals for no reason and be accountable for each such transfer and payment.
9. In case a patient is not able to pay the subsidized charges of hospital, he can still be treated and the cost of such treatment be debited to his retirement pension/old age pension account in such a manner that his pension amount per month is reduced as if he had paid less contributions. This might be a complex thing to explain, but just as actuaries calculate pension amounts payable, they can easily calculate the reduction due to such early utilizations. The logic behind this suggestion is that it is better to be healthy today than to wait for higher amount in later years of life, when one might not be there to collect it.
10. And with all this, the burden on the state will be less both in terms of finances, and manpower, so it can lead to reduction in taxes!
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Chandresh
Advice is free – lessons I charge for!!
Drugs cost me a lot here...so how is this free....
I would rather have a good job and pay for my health care.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
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Orginally posted by mercury6
Drugs cost me a lot here...so how is this free....
I would rather have a good job and pay for my health care.
If government promise to reduce tax accordingly
(40% of or tax $$$ are going in to health care)
Thanks and regards.
Biomed
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"Change before you have to" : Jack Welch
