What about our children?
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Posted on: 30-03-05 18:13:28
Also note thet there is not one INDIAN culture. e.g: Kathakali and kalaripayattu(keralite martial art) is direct part of my culture.
Do you do Martial Arts? I do Moo Yea-do. It a mix of art forms from Tae Kwon Do/Kung Fu/Aikido, Judo and Jujitsu. I heard a lot about kalaripayattu. It's a amazing art form.
Thanks,
Anand16
Quote:
Orginally posted by anand16
Do you do Martial Arts? I do Moo Yea-do. It a mix of art forms from Tae Kwon Do/Kung Fu/Aikido, Judo and Jujitsu. I heard a lot about kalaripayattu. It's a amazing art form.
Thanks,
Anand16
Unfortunately not. I have a cousin who dropped out since he could adhere to the discipline needed. I dont think i'd fare any better.
Ofcourse...nowadays they have classes which are very much like the other popular martial art classes and do not require the strict rules of the orthodox way of learning the art.
http://www.kalaripayattu.org/
"Kalaripayattu - The Orient's treasure trove, a gift to the modern world and the mother of all martial arts. Legend traces the 3000-year-old art form to Sage Parasurama- the master of all martial art forms and credited to be the re-claimer of Kerala from the Arabian Sea. Kalaripayattu originated in ancient South India. Kung- fu, popularized by the monks of the Shoaling Temple traces its ancestry to Bodhi Dharma - an Indian Buddhist monk and Kalaripayattu master."
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I am one of those Canadian kids whose parents (father) decided that I was never going to learn or appreciate my Indian roots, or ever learn the language (being in Edmonton). My parents both being teachers didn't like the direction things were going.
So at the ripe age of 9, my dad quit his job in Edmonton, sold everything, and just picked up and moved to India. There he started a business, but his main objective was to ensure that me and my sister learned Hindi, Punjabi, and the Indian culture.
His objective was accomplished. We came back only when it was time for my university education.
So, I am one of those 2nd generation kids who got moved back by 1/2 a generation. I am also married to an Indian woman from India.
BUT, I sometimes BLAME MY PARENTS for this.
The reason....well I definitely understand and appreciate the Indian culture and values.
But I also am very much Canadian in the way I live, think, and overall I have come to sometimes dislike some of the Indian ways of thinking...so I am truly torn between two cultures.
I envy my cousins who stayed here and really grew up enjoying and knowing only the Canadian way of life.....ignorance is bliss.
Because of what I know, I am constantly faced with conflicts in values, principles, choices....the indian way....the Canadian way....both equally good or bad in some respects.
You see, since I am brought up essentially with full appreciation of both (I lived in India for 8 years), I sometimes can't stand the Indian side, and likewise I sometimes am critical of the Canadian side.
Sometimes too much knowledge is a problem.
Do you intend for your kids to move to India....ever? If not, who cares if the know anything about it. You are only prolonging the inevitable intergration that will occur because segregation will not work. Eventually your kids, or their kids kids, will be fully Canadian.
Quote:
Orginally posted by nicefolks20
Do you intend for your kids to move to India....ever? If not, who cares if the know anything about it. You are only prolonging the inevitable intergration that will occur because segregation will not work. Eventually your kids, or their kids kids, will be fully Canadian.
Hopefully, being canadian will not mean a total rejection of their roots.
e.g: a canadian fashion designer whose style/vision is unique due to the influence that his Indian roots had. Same with a musician, artist, cook, dramatist, author,dancer etc. Even a catholic priest who is influenced by the Gita(there are so many similarities...almost word for word...in what Krishna says and the new testament says).
Hopefully its this uniqueness that we will call 'fully canadian' at that time. Not just trying to hang on to the past OR rejecting it completely, for the sake of it, but to be part of the evolution of canadian culture itself.
I believe(and I could be wrong) this is best accomplished by the parents learning to integrate into canadian society, but still retain and pass on the parts of their culture that they value, to their kids. It does not have to be an either/or battle. Rather a way for both parents and kids to evolve together as well. Chandresh has given us a good example of this from his personal experiences.
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Quote:
Orginally posted by jake3d
Hopefully, being canadian will not mean a total rejection of their roots.
That can happen if the reverse of what is said above in prev posts takes place.
I.e. You actually think your culture is inferior.
Which should never be the case. Since one cannot equate cultural values, we cannot say if one culture is better than the other. There are so many factors to how and why something becomes a norm and part of culture. For example we live with our parents well into the 20s and many times even later than that. This is not the case in western societies. This means a person in the west is free from a certain age to pursue his/her dreams or whatever. While we are not. But that doesnt necessarily make us inferior.
We have our reasons why we live with our parents and they with us.
So while there is no need to have a superiority complex regarding cultural values, feeling inferior may be actually worse.
Ideally as you put (Canadan cultural evolution) in time we could come up with a super culture, which would be a combination of the best elements of east and the west. And Africa. We leave out Africa and Arabia, but i am sure they have a lot to offer.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
I agree with you totally mercury,
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
So while there is no need to have a superiority complex regarding cultural values,
this requires maturity .
Quote:
feeling inferior may be actually worse.
and to not feel inferior requires knowledge of the contribution that the culture has made to the evolution of thought and civilization. I find that lot of the kneejerk reaction of cultural superiority actually comes as compensation for the inferiority complex related to ones own culture, especially when one is overwhelmed and surrounded by a new culture(as immigrants are).
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Ideally as you put (Canadan cultural evolution) in time we could come up with a super culture, which would be a combination of the best elements of east and the west. And Africa. We leave out Africa and Arabia, but i am sure they have a lot to offer.
I dont think there is a single culture that does not have something to offer others, even of isolated cultures. If we actually look at cultural evolution of various societies(western and eastern)...it has always been the amalgamation of other cultures into the cliched 'melting pot'. The pace of amalgamation is just a bit quicker nowadays.
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I having lived in UK for approx 2 years and US one year,I feel Religion /Skin colour/Athleticism becomes a major factor in integration.
In terms of Skin colour :
==================
East Europeans - polish,romanian etc second generation look the same
as normal whites here.Religion - orthodox christianity/catholicism also
binds them to the normal english community.There is no difference between them externally.
But for Indians/bangladesis etc it is impossible to integrate unless
they do artificial insemnination with european men/women.Their skin
colour marks them out easily.
Success of Blacks mixing with locals =
=============
As for the blacks - The blacks come from Jamaica and carribean islands here - no slaves worked in UK so they are
also recent immigrants.But they are "christians" and secondly ,they are very good in sports very athletic great physique- like football etc .football,soccer also brings these guys closer to english culture .You cant even compare a black's physique and athleticism or height to an Indian or any asian for that matter.They have something that is natural and majestic .Very graceful.The physical power they have is immense which is very attractive to european men/woman.Since most of the blacks are poor ,they intermarry with poor whites have children out of wedlock etc.Also, They are very promiscious when it comes to marriage and adultery .Slaves lost most of their culture and family values when they were forced from africa to cuba/jamaica etc in 16th century and when so many blacks were fathered by rape and force .This is in direct contrast to Africans who come from somalia etc now as refugees and who are quite committed to family and who never had to face the slave trade .But still lot of mixing of White girls and black boys social strata is poor though.
Asians as a whole
============
The South Asian community is very big but still many people from PAkistan/India marry their daughters who are born/raised in UK to men from PAkistan/India and similarly for men.they wont marry their women to a indian/pakistani men raised in UK.
There is a gurudwara close to where I live now and there lot of old couples
come for all the religious ceremonies and is a good meeting point.They have been in UK for 30-40 yrs now but still they miss India because of so much less assimilation here and they still try to get their children married
to Indians from India.Though they speak the same language (Sikhs and Pakistanis speak Punjabi) but socially they dont mix with each other.
if an Indian woman (2nd/3rd generation ) a Pakistani Man |(2nd/3rd gen|),she is ostracised in sikh community among the people and her name is changed to a Muslim Name after marriage.Also,Many regret coming to UK because their children have become completely british and now feel they have nowhere to go.It becomes quite complicated when parents become old and infirm and there is noone to take care of them.Europeans rarely keep their parents with them and most of them land up in an infirmary or an old age home with lucky ones getting a weekly visit.This is one of the important reasons also for cross country marriages,the parents want someone to take care of them when they become old and they use their son/daughter as a bait for men/women from India.
Gujaratis are the largest business community in UK among Indians.But look at their marriages- T90% marry only from India ow.The 2nd/3rd/4th Generation from Kenya/Uganda speak till Gujrati and they marry among their own community which is also quite big.everyone knows one another.They watch bollywood movies though they may not have lived in India for 100 yrs.This is their identity.They want to be a part of UK but they are not in many ways.Bollywood movies give them that identity.
I dont think any Indian or his future generation in Europe can be part of european culture unless through intermarriage with whites.They will look different and brown as long as they mix with the asians and be out of the mainstream.Unless there is a through mixing as it is in south america,
(Spanish are famous for mixing with locals....Mestizos are the spanish- indian mix in South america that was done by forceful rape ) then only the Indian community will have some hope.This also includes religious conversion from HIndus to christianity.
I really dont know how different are canadian europeans from Europeans from Europe though I dont see much difference because many of the new immigrants are from europe l.France /UK contributes immigrants.People from chile/venezuela/south america are either blacks or spanish origin(whites|) .
And Since Canada is a majority christian Nation and most importantly majority are white,these guys are too smart to allow their government to be run by Asians origin men/women because the political power/money power/media power in these countries (US,Europe
etc) are all pro european and you wont see it changing for a long time or may be never.
That is why these guys do practice discrimination in a very subtle way that you cant prove but have to accept .This bluntly put is called "networking".
It is really a desperate attempt when a man changes his name to Paul Singh /steve singh just to be accepted by the mainstream european culture.
