What about our children?
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Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)
Posted on: 29-03-05 18:51:44
Desi_in_Ottawa...your views on this topic are indeed good. I can tell you of my problems..
In Ottawa, i was approached by some families for "shaadi ka rishta's".. To be honest I was not able to find any compatability between the gal(s) and me. They were "Indian" looking all right but to be honest, as DIO has pointed out..they grew up in a Canadian culture. I cant relate myself with anyone who does not like Hindi films and music...who cant speak to me in Hindi (or Bangla)... That itself stopped the shaadi ka process.
Secondly, Chandresh is right... its the parents who are confused and as such, I do not want my kids to face a situation I faced when I was in Canada. They can always come back to Canada for pursuing their career's but, they should be exposed to our traditions back home in India....
That is why, for all you desi guys and gals, dreaming of marrying "Indians" in Canada (i.e., who came there at an early age or who were born there), think again !
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Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
Most American music (Jazz, Blues, funk, hip hop, rap) can be traced back to African origins. They are as mainstream as it comes. They have a had a great influence on America (and the world), culturally speaking.
Outside america we tend to view them as American, but it is not.
Music is but a extremely tiny part of the definition of culture and it would be wrong to generalize only on the basis of that concept.
I also do not tend to agree with your use of the word " roots" in describing the development of Afro-American music. At most I would agree to the possiblity that music, examples of which you have given, may in some way have been "influenced" or perhaps has some "characteristics" of African music, but saying that the African American man has retained his African culture on this account would be totally incorrect.
Let us see how culture is designed.
From here http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/anthropology/courses/122/module1/culture.html
Culture: The system of shared beliefs, values, customs, behaviours, and artifacts that the members of society use to cope with their world and with one another, and that are transmitted from generation to generation through learning.
Having read the above, consider two Africans in the 18th century of which one is captured and sold in America and the other escapes the net of the slave traders. Fast forward to the present. Both Africans lived and have their lineage to the current time in their own countries.
What similarities do you imagine you would find?
That my friend is how culture evolves and man with it.
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Diogenes
====================
The Cynic
Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)
Posted on: 29-03-05 19:06:10
A Salim-Javed would have said...
"Ghulam aur Azaad afriki mein shaayad yehi fark hai" (one is a hip-hop moghul, who still is racially profiled in the USA..while the other lives like a king in his own land, notwithstanding the fact that land has no medicare etc.)
..with due apologies for Salim-Javed for parodying their dialogue in SHOLAY
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"Aur Vaise Bhi, Sharafat ki jab kapde utarti hai, sabse zyaada mazaa shareefon ko hi aati hai"....(From The Dirty Picture)
Warning !! SCAM ALERT !!
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=4169 & http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=1379
This is a Useful Health related Tip
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=3865
Please visit
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php for some interesting Information ! (Especially 009.005 )
Quote:
Orginally posted by DiogenestheCynic
Music is but a extremely tiny part of the definition of culture and it would be wrong to generalize only on the basis of that concept.
Sure, Music is not the whole thing. But I dont think it is an extremely tiny (that would be nothing) Part of north american culture. the development of music is very different in North america. At different time it has portrayed American way of life. Again I dont want to detail this, but if you look up history of the music styles I mentioned, you will find more. follow the trail of Blues, Jazz, rock, funk (and its variant Disco), rap, soul and they represent various periods in Americas history (of both White and black folks).
How can you say that is a tiny part?
Music influences mannerism (and fashion). For example rap influences the people to act in a certain way and display a certain attitude. The majority (people of european descent) in this case adopted more and more of it, till it has almost become mainstream.
I hope you see it not as simple as just listening to a type of music. If I love Blues, I must love its history and the people who have brought it to us.
I cant love the Blues and hate the black people. I cant love rock music and hate white people. I cant love salsa music and hate latinos.
(theoretically, it is possible).
Quote:
I also do not tend to agree with your use of the word " roots" in describing the development of Afro-American music. At most I would agree to the possiblity that music, examples of which you have given, may in some way have been "influenced" or perhaps has some "characteristics" of African music, but saying that the African American man has retained his African culture on this account would be totally incorrect.
Yes, not 100% of it had origins in Africa. I dint say that. Nothing is pure. But it has had significant influence on America, esp concerning race relations.
So also with sports generally in North America.
Of course Europeans have influenced Africa too in many ways, not all of it commendable.
Quote:
Let us see how culture is designed.
From here http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/anthropology/courses/122/module1/culture.html
Culture: The system of shared beliefs, values, customs, behaviours, and artifacts that the members of society use to cope with their world and with one another, and that are transmitted from generation to generation through learning.
No arguement here. See above for how music may be part of culture.
What happens with "Shared beliefs, customs, behavious and artifcats" in a racially hetergenous society?
Quote:
Having read the above, consider two Africans in the 18th century of which one is captured and sold in America and the other escapes the net of the slave traders. Fast forward to the present. Both Africans lived and have their lineage to the current time in their own countries.
What similarities do you imagine you would find?
Oh sure, except for racial features, they are going to be nothin like what they were back then. Todays african is not sitting in a bar and singing the blues and the african-american of today is not dancing to tribal beats. I was talking about how the captured africans practices may have influenced his captors.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
I was talking about how the captured africans practices may have influenced his captors.
Its the same with Indian culture(and i mean arts/music/mythology etc). I wish I could post a draft, of proposal goals for a film I'm doing, on why understanding and crosspollinating cultures is important to me personally. Sadly the proposal is currently under consideration...will post it once its accepted/rejected.
However, one has to know about ones own culture inorder for someone else to understand it. Or to be able to convey it to someone else. The canadian cultural scene is evolving as any other and its upto people who understand their own culture to make sure that the canadian culture will ultimately reflect(or at the very least understand) the cultures of places they(newcomers) come from.
For those that this concept does not make sense. ..here is an example.. from the film world:
Mira nair would not be as successful if she did not understand both desi and videsi cultures. Her films are considered cross-over because different peoples can identify with it. Thats because the filmmaker is able to convey what she envisions. Same with movies like 'my big fat greek wedding' OR 'mambo italiano'.
Integration of cultures is what makes a truly multicultural society. Not hastened assimilation whereby ALL the good qualities of one culture is almost wiped off. That would be as much a loss ( worse imo) as qualified people working in odd jobs
Mira Nair is now an integral part of canadian media culture. So is Rohinton Mistry. Similarly the rest of us have the opportunity to be ambassadors for our own cultures in different things we do..be it a film or introducing others to language, customs, music, festivals or food.
Wether we have the maturity(to do this without seeing the need to belittle other cultures)...is another matter
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Ottawa_Nerd, U hit the bullseye, dude. This is what I was trying to say. Desis who migrated with their children 8-15 yrs of age have their hands full. Chandresh may be right to some extent. May be we the parents are confused.
For European immigrants (specifically from Eastern Europe) there is not much of a cultural change. We from south asia run into problems with regard to cultural changes/issues.
DIO
Quote:
Orginally posted by desi in ottawa
For European immigrants (specifically from Eastern Europe) there is not much of a cultural change. We from south asia run into problems with regard to cultural changes/issues.
DIO
True. However there are some differences between East and west europeans (developed vs under or undeveloped).
Immigrants from East Europe however dont face problems intermingling because of same race and religion. In those areas they dont have to prove themselves. They can be put in places and Jobs where a visible minority would not be.
Their Kids virtually grow up like any other "white" Canadian Kid.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
