I am not sure how long you have lived in USA and gone through medical system here.
If you see the medical billing system from hospital and how much leverage big insurance company has you will be surprised why do individual or small business owner can not afford medical here. No medical system in world is perfect but pure free market does not work in Healthcare too. I never seen anyone negotiate rate in hospital except insurance company after services. I am in HealthCare IT.
Romneycare which covers 95% people in MA state is working and people are happy. No-one is dying in MA state for 3 hrs waiting. Obamacare is base upon Romneycare. Romney likes his plan too but could not say anything to make extreme right wing of party unhappy.
All the people who oppose Obamacare never purposed how pure free market will take care per-existing conditions, older people below age 65, working 20 million uninsurance people which can not be covered by medicaid program? This is the only country where many people to wait to get age 65 for medicare qualification.
If you think as all uninsured and under insured people as one company and they want to buy group plan policy then that is biggest pool of people who can negotiate good deal with medical insurance company. Having free market across the state border insurance exchange program where people can buy own insurance like group plan. This model perfectly makes sense. CBO also reported that obamacare is the only way to control healthcare cost in long term. US spent most money per person than anyone in the world for healthcare.
Why so much resistance and criticism?
Insurance companies have big lobby at K-street and they loose the control to say "No" to someone just because of per-existing. There are million of kids of age 22-26 can be attached with employer base group plan.
Republican party stand for govt. out of life for as much as possible. Means if you have insurance that good.. if not you are your own and it's your problem."Live without govt or Die".
Quote:
Originally posted by Nightmare
If Obamacare was that simple and good, there would not have been much resistance and criticism.
If any law can make pre- existing condition affordable, whole world would have accepted that. Obamacare, primarily, is a way to destroy USA economy. However, the disaster would strike a few years hence. By that time Obama would be enjoying his sunset on a beach witha glass of beer while the future generations would pay monetarily and the present generation with a dismal service like we do in Canada. It is truly unfortunate that most of us do not understand or appreciate the unfairness and cruelty associated with socialized medicine. I had a friend in Canada who died of cancer. I learnt certain horrible truth about Canadian healthcare. First thing that I learnt was that Chemotherapy is NOT free. If one is not covered by insurance, which he was not, then his family is ruined financially. Second when some NGO or charity extend help, one does not get the best drugs as these drugs are costly. What you get is drugs which are outdated by 5 years. Please read about death panels of Liverpool care in UK by googling it. Problem with socialized healthcare is tremendous waste of money and resources. I would like to ask one simple question. Do you know what is the cost of blood test in Canada?. When the care id "free", we are lulled in to complacency while the blood testing lab and the politicians and bureaucrats benefit out of our "free" test, the cost of which is billed via taxes. And bloody we have to wait for 3 hours in line for a blood test and wait 10 days for the result and then go to the family doctor for copy of the results. I know some of you would jump on me for the above. But I would like to clarify that there has been enough debate on CD about the subject.
Also Obamacare was not the result Obama won. It was Kangress style (India)of politics that
Obama whole heartedly adopted which won him victory. Kangress rascals in India have provided a simple formula to the world. Distribute (or rather make a drama of distributing) to majority by taking from lesser number of people, pander minorities, encourage illegal immigration by minorities, pander trade unions and keep Govt. employees happy by raising their salary and expanding bureaucracy. Indira with her dirty mind introduced this in 1971 and look at the poverty levels in India today. Obama would have same delirious effect on USA. Fortunately, I would not be alive after 40 years but my kids and grandchildren would be. They would pay and curse me. Obama was absolute failure in first 4 years and if you try the same formula, you cannot expecta different result.
Typical answer to ward off. I am also associated with insurance company closely and just demonizing them is of little help. If Govt. wants to provide affordable healthcare, they can open Govt hospitals where Obama voters and poor people can take benefits of "free" healthcare. There is no need to force perfectly healthy and young citizens to take insurance and be part of the "group" so others can enjoy discount. I actually did not want this thread to degenerate in Obamacare debate. My whole point is that Obama may be a decent person or even a smart guy too but he has failed totally in management of economy because of his antiquated socialist ideas which have failed everywhere and every time. Latest example is Europe. I was just a few days back arguing with my socialist friend. He was also hung upon Obamacare. He siad that there is no quesion of personal responsibility and it should be available uniformly. I asked him "Perhaps you would wish that every one should have equal life span too". Then he kept quiet. I bet you would not have ever programmed your mind to calculate the interest burden of 16 Trillion debt or how would one pay back that loan or the disaster that Obama would leave for next few generations. He promised to cut debt to 5 Trillion after 4 yearsbut ended up with 16 Trillion. What an efficient president?
That's good thing about democracy that we can agree to disagree and still be friends.
That is the whole point of having election .
Gun, extreme pro-life and religion crazy is not in power. GW Bush had 2 unpaid wars, tax break to rich so that we would not have recession and medicaid part D program and nothing was paid. Paul Ryan voted for all those credit card bills under Bush administration but he became deficit hawk when Obama took office.
No republican even Mitt Romney never mentioned how he governed at the place of Obama when economy was in free fall, stock market was crashed and we were loosing millions of jobs every month. If govt did not spend money and bail out banks, insurance and auto sector then what other options?? There was no private equity fund or business or provide money when everything was free fall.
I am okay if young healthy person do not have insurance but he should be okay to accept death in emergency or accident. I do not want young person to be taken care of when he/she does not have insurance or cash. These emergency free loaders ( young and older) increase the cost of premium and hospital.
If you own body, you have to take the responsibility of own body means have insurance or cash. You can not buy online insurance when have heart attack or accident.
Quote:
Originally posted by Nightmare
Typical answer to ward off. I am also associated with insurance company closely and just demonizing them is of little help. If Govt. wants to provide affordable healthcare, they can open Govt hospitals where Obama voters and poor people can take benefits of "free" healthcare. There is no need to force perfectly healthy and young citizens to take insurance and be part of the "group" so others can enjoy discount. I actually did not want this thread to degenerate in Obamacare debate. My whole point is that Obama may be a decent person or even a smart guy too but he has failed totally in management of economy because of his antiquated socialist ideas which have failed everywhere and every time. Latest example is Europe. I was just a few days back arguing with my socialist friend. He was also hung upon Obamacare. He siad that there is no quesion of personal responsibility and it should be available uniformly. I asked him "Perhaps you would wish that every one should have equal life span too". Then he kept quiet. I bet you would not have ever programmed your mind to calculate the interest burden of 16 Trillion debt or how would one pay back that loan or the disaster that Obama would leave for next few generations. He promised to cut debt to 5 Trillion after 4 yearsbut ended up with 16 Trillion. What an efficient president?
Quote:
Originally posted by rahul_singh23
That's good thing about democracy that we can agree to disagree and still be friends.
That is the whole point of having election .
Gun, extreme pro-life and religion crazy is not in power. GW Bush had 2 unpaid wars, tax break to rich so that we would not have recession and medicaid part D program and nothing was paid. Paul Ryan voted for all those credit card bills under Bush administration but he became deficit hawk when Obama took office.
No republican even Mitt Romney never mentioned how he governed at the place of Obama when economy was in free fall, stock market was crashed and we were loosing millions of jobs every month. If govt did not spend money and bail out banks, insurance and auto sector then what other options?? There was no private equity fund or business or provide money when everything was free fall.
I am okay if young healthy person do not have insurance but he should be okay to accept death in emergency or accident. I do not want young person to be taken care of when he/she does not have insurance or cash. These emergency free loaders ( young and older) increase the cost of premium and hospital.
If you own body, you have to take the responsibility of own body means have insurance or cash. You can not buy online insurance when have heart attack or accident.
Quote:
Originally posted by Nightmare
Typical answer to ward off. I am also associated with insurance company closely and just demonizing them is of little help. If Govt. wants to provide affordable healthcare, they can open Govt hospitals where Obama voters and poor people can take benefits of "free" healthcare. There is no need to force perfectly healthy and young citizens to take insurance and be part of the "group" so others can enjoy discount. I actually did not want this thread to degenerate in Obamacare debate. My whole point is that Obama may be a decent person or even a smart guy too but he has failed totally in management of economy because of his antiquated socialist ideas which have failed everywhere and every time. Latest example is Europe. I was just a few days back arguing with my socialist friend. He was also hung upon Obamacare. He siad that there is no quesion of personal responsibility and it should be available uniformly. I asked him "Perhaps you would wish that every one should have equal life span too". Then he kept quiet. I bet you would not have ever programmed your mind to calculate the interest burden of 16 Trillion debt or how would one pay back that loan or the disaster that Obama would leave for next few generations. He promised to cut debt to 5 Trillion after 4 yearsbut ended up with 16 Trillion. What an efficient president?
Just try maths. Calculate interest on 16 Trillion and counting. Calculate interest impact for each percentage point rise in interest rate. You are still living in 2008, singing Bush tune. Why can't you accept that Obama has absolutely poor skills in managing economy. I too can write or copy/paste from GOP website. However, I prefer to use my common sense which says that after spending 5 Trillion, if this guy cannot produce one job (still stuck at 8% unemployment, while actual is 14%), he is good for nothing. Common sense also tells me that Obama, from day one in office, was aiming to get re elected. If you are genuinely curious and if you can be honest to your self, there is enough on website on Obama support for unionized teachers who cannot teach (read poor math and reading abilities of USA school children), support for Unionized car company employees while screwing non-unionized employees, shafting secured creditors of GM/Chrysler, ballooning trade deficit, Many solyndras in name of green energy, and failed economic policies resulting in trade deficit. I guess you need some basics in finance and economics. Trade deficit, and not GDP, is the real curse. I have come to believe that who support Obama on his failed economic policies are like North Korian zombies who have been brain washed or are selfish to the nth degree who want to enjoy the life and shift the burden to future generation. I would like to debate seriously, if you are interested. Do not give me a laundry list of GOP policies. Just study the state of education sector which Obama touts, make honest effort, do some self introspection and then get back.
Election is all about option. One party gave option and 52% people like it and other party running on what is wrong with Obama than providing counter options which they can not explain they got 48% vote.
"A party who loves so called small govt what to control every pregnancy in this country."
Whole Republican is hostage by religious right, Grover N (anti-tax guy), Rush L, Sean Hannity, NRA and Fox news? Republican entrainment complex.
Why all good moderate Republican loosing primary election against Tea party extremest?
Romney take an $80,000 deduction on his horse! How does it convert into jobs?
Oh yes Obama is bad president then what about Paul Ryan budget plan?
What about Paul Ryan voting record under Bush administrator?
What about all the debt ceiling were passed without asking single payment under Bush administrator?
What is Republican plan for balance budget without telling how going to pay 5T$ new tax break ?
How did Mitt Romney would managed to bring 8% unemployment without single $ debt they were in charge in last 4 years?
What is Republican plan for young kids who brought into this county illegal by their parents?
What is the solution of young freeloaders in emergency? What is the republican plan to control the cost of insurance and healthcare from freeloaders?
"I am okay if young healthy person do not have insurance but he should be okay to accept death in emergency or accident. I do not want young person to be taken care of when he/she does not have insurance or cash. These emergency free loaders ( young and older) increase the cost of premium and hospital.
If you own body, you have to take the responsibility of own body means have insurance or cash. You can not buy online insurance when have heart attack or accident."
Quote:
Originally posted by Nightmare
Just try maths. Calculate interest on 16 Trillion and counting. Calculate interest impact for each percentage point rise in interest rate. You are still living in 2008, singing Bush tune. Why can't you accept that Obama has absolutely poor skills in managing economy. I too can write or copy/paste from GOP website. However, I prefer to use my common sense which says that after spending 5 Trillion, if this guy cannot produce one job (still stuck at 8% unemployment, while actual is 14%), he is good for nothing. Common sense also tells me that Obama, from day one in office, was aiming to get re elected. If you are genuinely curious and if you can be honest to your self, there is enough on website on Obama support for unionized teachers who cannot teach (read poor math and reading abilities of USA school children), support for Unionized car company employees while screwing non-unionized employees, shafting secured creditors of GM/Chrysler, ballooning trade deficit, Many solyndras in name of green energy, and failed economic policies resulting in trade deficit. I guess you need some basics in finance and economics. Trade deficit, and not GDP, is the real curse. I have come to believe that who support Obama on his failed economic policies are like North Korian zombies who have been brain washed or are selfish to the nth degree who want to enjoy the life and shift the burden to future generation. I would like to debate seriously, if you are interested. Do not give me a laundry list of GOP policies. Just study the state of education sector which Obama touts, make honest effort, do some self introspection and then get back.
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posted on: 14-11-12 11:40:13
If I had the privilege to vote, I would not have chosen Obama as he is too socialistic and favors the unlawfuls in the country (although records indicate deportation was far higher during his administration).
Republicans had a lot of chance to win. However, they shot themselves in the foot by statements that are not in sync with a majority of younger and diverse population. Obama had a higher number of votes from younger, diverse (non-white) and women population. I can't fathom an old white male being qualified to talk about woman's health. Statements such as "a child is God's will even if it came from rape" and "binders full of women" and "a woman's body has a way to shut itself (referenced to rape)" are outrageously ignorant and people do take a note of it.
When someone throws an ad claiming Obama sold Chrysler to the Italians who are going to move Jeep production to China, it's an outright lie that has been refuted by Chrysler execs who themselves tend to be republicans. People in Toledo, OH where Jeep is assembled took note of it. When Romney insisted that his idea, of private firms supporting the financing of the auto industry's structured bankruptcy, would have worked, it was publicly refuted by top execs of GM who proved to him that no private financial institution was going to bear the cost of a GM bankruptcy. These top execs tend to be Republicans.
Romney was against FEMA (and in favor of a semi-privatized disaster management agency) and Hurricane Sandy hit and guess who showered praises about Obama and FEMA? Gov Chris Christie, an outspoken Republican (who by the way was the keynote speaker during the Republican National Convention). All of these hurt the Republican cause.
Romney could have shown honesty by admitting he pioneered the Romneycare in his state of MA which happened to be a guiding model for Obamacare. I am not saying a national healthcare is good/bad/right/wrong, but when a candidate speaks against something while having supported and implemented the same thing in his own state, that erodes his credibility. Romney could have admitted the fact he supported bankruptcy for the auto industry; instead he twisted the facts. That hurts his credibility. Guess what, the auto industry belt makes for a huge voting population and Ohio proved it.
Politicians don't create jobs or can change the economic cycle in a free market society, yet they like to take credit for it. Hence, they have to take the blame as well. Politicians can create favorable regulatory climate that may (only a may) lead to job creation. Obama, to the best of my understanding, stifles that by supposedly creating regulatory barriers (read socialism).
I listened to the second debate on NPR. One of the question was how you would create jobs. Obama provided a bulletized list, Romney started with how Obama's 4 year was shitty and he would change that. How? he didn't list it. He could have. I am not saying what Obama listed would work, but at least Obama made an attempt to answer directly. That's what I want to see in a politician. Provide direct answers on what you believe in.
In my opinion, I saw Obama's response to questions were more direct than not and Romney's was way too wishy washy than I would have liked. Romney as a businessman has every capacity and intelligence to provide direct response, yet he failed and that hurt the Republicans.
Politicians need to be in touch with the evolving reality. Obama was once upon a time against gay unions and he has since changed his stance. Republicans still thump on the bible and talk things that the younger generation don't believe in. Extremism is hurting the Republicans.
I think, it is more of "I voted for Obama because I don't like what Romney/Republicans are saying". And that brings the deficiency of a 2 party system. Limited choices leading to potentially bad choices.
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Dimple2001
Romney spoke too soon reg FEMA and had to eat his words.
Urban educated/working woman got sick of GOPs right wing agenda.
Romney never mentioned George Bush (the son) nor invited him to speak in the GOP convention. Same for Sara Palin. Why? Romney knew well that the current economy was due to the failed policies of Bush. Ms. Palin? Let's leave her alone.
Ann Romney, the wife, grew up with silver spoon. She had no diea about middleclass and poor. She's just another bored, rich socialite.
Romney lost his own state where he was the governor. What else one needs to be humiliated.
Obama won in Michigan and especially Ohio as he bailed out the auto sector that saved lot of jobs in that state. GM and Chrysler have plants in Ohio and the bail out helped them to run the plants thereby saving jobs. People showed their gratitude by voting for Obama.
I think back in 1992, someone tried to start a political party, forgot his name (former founder of EDS). May be its time to start a third party. Having said that, it should not be like India where there are too many political parties, regional and national.
The former gov of MN won as an independent.
