Immigration 101: How to Succeed in Canada?
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| Immigration 101: How to Succeed in Canada? By: Vandematram A.Who should immigrate to Canada?. article.php?id=539 |
Posted on: 03-07-10 06:20:00
JRF, you said it and I could'nt have explained it any better. Actually, what you have opined is absolutely encouraging.
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Originally posted by morning_rain
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Originally posted by dan
Well you disagree and that is fine. Nothing stops you from going the streetsmart route anyway but 3 cars in the driveway is not everyone's measure of success or the reasons to be in North America. That is not everyone's goal and that goal can be achieved using the streetsmart route.
What bugs me is when employers take advantage of these people who are willing to pull 16 hour shifts in a warehouse (for example). Anyway thats a different issue.
Finally - Dan, you said that having 3 cars is not a measure of success or the reason to be in North America. Please advise my CBCD brain (said in jest here)..for what other reason do immigrants come to NA? Our health care system is not as good as back home, nor education nor the culture of Canadians.
You will have to do your own research and soul searching for that. Not available on any public forum.
I don't look at the driveways bud, it's just a way to present you the facts. Yes, FACTS. This is my motto in life not to compare myself to others and not to demean myself by looking at others' achievements. Even if I need to take 101 myself, I don't need to be answerable to anyone, least to this board and you. So, take it easy!
Ok good facts. Taken it very easy. Now I think you need to take the 101 yourself as you said so good luck...
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Originally posted by Nightmare
While I do not agree completely with TK, I completely disagree with JRF who is enamored with Canada. I do not know his occupation. May be he is successful entrepreneur running Subway or Tim Horton. Else he may be senior bureaucrat in Govt. or he may be happy here because he was failure in India.
Canada Vs India discussion, in one form or another has taken place innumerable times on CD. Well, I do not mind jumping one more time.
Now experience of immigrants and their fate / status in Canada differ from person to person. There are many who advocate and advise that one should qualify again in Canada and I largely agree. However, one point that should be considered which most giving sermons forget is that Canada is India of 1956 of Jawahar joker – a license – permit- quota raj. For example, I tried unsuccessfully to get in to CA program. The requirement is that one should first get in to a CA firm recognized to impart training (Many small and medium CA firms are not recognized). Now age is a big factor for these firms. They prefer Canadian graduates fresh from University. Hence unless you know someone in big CA firm or you have worked in their branches in India it is difficult to get in the program. Of course, there are other options- CGA or CMA. Again, with CGA or CAN one can reach middle management position but CFO position is ruled out. Further, as pointed out by TK, Tim Horton Coffee costs Rs. 80 here. How long would your savings last? With a family of four, one has little option but to accept the first job that comes across and I did start with labor job @ $8/- per hour, then minimum wage. Over a period of time I did my CGA and is now settled in “good” job. (Warnings to those who are ready with daggers - I am certainly drawing above average salary so do not try to deride me on that count). However, I am certainly disappointed knowing that I would not rise to the top post though I am amply qualified. I have seen discrimination being practiced both in private and public sector.
Having spent 12 years in Canada, I now realize that there were enough pointers of which I was not aware when I migrated. I realize the mistake that I made. I researched for accounting and auditing career. Had I known what I know today that a TTC ticket collector or Canada post clerk or a nurse or a municipal clerk earns much more than a financial analyst in private firm, I would not have migrated. It is not that I have not tried to get those jobs. Fact is that it is almost impossible to get in to TTC or Ontario Hydro or local Govt. There is no concept of any technical entrance test – like UPSC in India. Who you know matters more than what you know. With the kind of system prevalent here, getting unionized job is a pipe dream.
Indeed that unionized job is often a pipe dream I tell you. Tough to get in for minorities, especially at the senior level. But certainly an interesting post. Getting a TTC job would be great for security as well but is it accessible.. ?
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Originally posted by morning_rain
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Originally posted by Nightmare
In case of Pharmacy, a test is conducted wherein the prospective candidate is asked to write an essay on any subject. Based on the essay and interview, admission is granted. They do not give a damn whether you have arts, science, or business subjects! There are just 100 seats in Toronto. If you can get in you are settled for the life- Guaranteed income of six figure annually.
Shame on this country. That summarizes my feelings succinctly.
http://pharmacy.utoronto.ca/programs/bsc/admissions/overview.htm
Just to get into the bachelors of Pharmacy degree you need a minimum 70% GPA and write the PCAT - pharmacy college admission test which includes biology chemistry Quantitative Ability, Verbal Ability, and Reading Comprehension. In addition, two writing subtests are included which are used to assess the ability to think and write effectively.
The interviews are very intense. I have sat on a panel (in a different subject mind you but it was for university admissions). This is very intense.
240 students out of 1000 get admission at the University of Toronto... This is a very competitive program.
Yes. I can see the daggers out.
Well, as far as Pharmacy is concerned, MR might be right as my information was second hand. When I checked with the person who provided me that information, he clarified that quite a lot of students pass PCAT. He said it PCAT is joke. Very easy to qualify and the reason is to ensure that those who are dumb also qualify and compete for the subjective test and interview. As per MR, 1000 student pass and 240 get in. He further explained that if they wanted fairness, the ratio of pass and successful should have been lower to weed out weak candidates but it is kept high so that nepotism and favoritism can be done. He further explained that they do keep some dummies on the interview panel from visible minority but they essentially rubber stamp the panel decision and/or favor students from their community which is no different then favoritism done by other panel members. He also stated that those who are really interested in fairness should investigate and they would find that students from a particular religious minority have much larger proportion of visible minority students. He said that it is a statistical impossibility that year after year particular religious minority dominate the admission.
Since MR has set on the panel, I would go by MR’s views on this though I would like to know as to how MR got on the panel. Is MR a pharmacist or MR’s selection was as a result of some political patronage? What was MR’s experience as to the fairness of the process? What kinds of questions are asked at the interview? Are the questions “soft skill” or technical? If the questions are on soft skill, how does the panel evaluate them? Most soft skill question are such that it can have variety of response. How does one differentiate between a good response and a bad response? It is a well known fact that the interviewer (in this case panel member) forms the impression in the first minute. It would be interesting to learn from MR as to how much role ethnicity, looks, manners, accent, dress and other traits play in decision making. It will also be interesting to find out how much weight PCAT and interview carries respectively. Such information would help CDs to decide about fairness or otherwise of the process.
I know of one Federal Govt. agency employ psychologists to help them select as to who will make good manager without having regard to the technical skills of the candidate as they believe that a manger’s job is to “mange the people” and for that technical knowledge is not required. As a result, all HR and other social studies morons have now assumed managerial positions playing havoc with employees having strong technical skills.
My point is that in Canada, admission process, recruitment process and examination process are all subjective and hence prone to prejudices and preferences of the interviewer/panel.
Further MR has taken a shot at my post but has chosen not to opine whether the immigrants are fairly treated which is the issue we are discussing. My experience based on my interaction for 12 years with immigrants has been that an overwhelming majority thinks that immigrants get a raw deal. I would certainly like a clear answer to this question from MR and Voltrex.
I would not discuss the issue regarding Pharmacy test any further as I realize that I do not have first hand information and hence can not discuss the facts with full confidence.
JRF ..Good reply but you do not owe an explanation .
Person convinced against his will is of his opinion still .
( Pls read morons in place of person )
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Growing Old Is Mandatory ..Growing UP is Optional
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Originally posted by voltrex
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Originally posted by Nightmare
For example, I tried unsuccessfully to get in to CA program. The requirement is that one should first get in to a CA firm recognized to impart training (Many small and medium CA firms are not recognized). Now age is a big factor for these firms. They prefer Canadian graduates fresh from University. Hence unless you know someone in big CA firm or you have worked in their branches in India it is difficult to get in the program. Of course, there are other options- CGA or CMA. Again, with CGA or CAN one can reach middle management position but CFO position is ruled out.
This is how the CA program works in Australia, Canada, England and Wales, and even Pakistan.
If you have 2.5 years of big 4 audit experience from India, then it will take you about 6 months to a year to be designated.
Accounting firms prefer to hire recent grads, that's how it is in many countries.
Getting into a big 4 or mid-sized accounting firm in Canada is no different than in the US:
a) either directly from school
b) or as an experienced hire
It has nothing to do with Canada.
The Liberal B****s had given full page advertisement in Indian CA magazine stating that Canada welcomes Indian CAs. Now the point I am making is that there are very few firms which are authorized to impart training. Big 4, which are the most scandalous firms (Those who do not believe me should look up USA SEC site. EVERY year these guys pay huge penalty for violations and escape punishment) and have the LARGEST pool of CA student do not employ middle aged immigrant CA unless some one has connection. The mid size firms also have very limited capacity and exploit. Not only that mid size firms provides tax hours but can not provide audit hours and endorsement of audit hours is at the mercy of the partners. I know at least 8 Indian CA who never could register for CA program because of this reason. Voltrex is purposely muddying the issue by talking about England and Australia and Pakistan. I do not know about Pakistan but whatever I know about England and Australia is different from what he has said. Voltrex says that CAs are employed as experienced hire. It is absolutely false and misleading. When they talk about experienced hire, they look for experience from Big 4 only and that too in a rare case otherwise they insist for “Canadian experience” with which ALL CDs are familiar. As far as USA is concerned, all that they require is 2 years work experience under CPA, be it in industry or audit firm (though I am not too sure about this). Knowing these facts, why would a country let CA from some other country migrate? Does it not reflect very sick mentality? Voltrex should ask any immigrant CA doing clerical or labor job as to how does he feel. Knowing pretty well that thousands of professionals from immigrants are forced to abandon their career and seek labor job / clerical job and still persisting with allowing highly qualified professional to migrate to Canada is reflection of weak character.
