Immigration 101: How to Succeed in Canada?


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Immigration 101: How to Succeed in Canada?
By: Vandematram

A.Who should immigrate to Canada?.

We keep reading the very same questions repeatedly in regards to job opportunities in Canada.

The dichotomy of the situation is that some highly qualified/experienced individuals are immigrating and crying here while poor to mediocre individuals are going great guns here.

Hence persons with the right attitude and a desire for making it any cost are required in Canada and NOT the book smart people.

It is all about attitude in Canada.

The the words attitude denote that we will do what is necessary to succeed here than what we want to do with our past experience.

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B.What are the yard stick for success after you leave your shores and land in Canada?.

1.A fully paid up 4 bedroom home with a two car garage and a swimming pool. The value of the assett around $ 1 Million.

2.Either a BMW X5 or a Cadillac Escalade or even a Mercedes SUV and combinations of those cars.

3.Option for a vacation anywhere in the world for 2 weeks every summer.

4.Children doing very well in school and getting 90% and above with a sure shot for the bursary and getting into top programs in good schools including medical education.

5.A condo on the 20th floor in downtown GTA rented and having the option to give it your child when they are ready for the first job.

6.A vacation cottage home at the Muskoka lake with a fancy boat on the jetty.

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C.Having listed a wish list or a symbol of success yard stick in Canada do we know any Desis who has attained these?.

Yes and there are plenty of them in Canada. I see every day Punjabi taxi drivers who cannot read or write English and who speak a smattering of English living in half million dollar home with their family driving Acura SUV's.

You see the refugee Srilankan Tamil living in fancy homes and every one of his family has a car. Many of them cannot sign their own names in English but have mortgages which far outweigh those of many of us.

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D.Who are they and what is it that they do?.

Typically these are individuals who have less education, who have picked skill sets and are not afraid to get their hands dirty.

They also have an attitude to face any consequence to attain success. Meaning they will even break the law and are willing to go to jail if needed so.

The highly qualified book smart individual always calculates the risk before jumping in while the less qualified street smart individual looks at the reward before jumping into the pool of wealth.

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E.How do you plan for success in Canada?.

1.Do not come with the US cross border migration plan after Citizenship. USof A is such a mess it will take generations to get out of the mess.

Life is more stable and chances of survival are better in Canada in comparison to USA.

2.Land in Canada and leave your degrees/experience certificates aside and start from scratch with a Will Win attitude.

3.Get a Safety Shoes from Walmart. You might be the best damn SAP expert with donkeys years of experience in it but the way things are going you'll never know when you will go looking for a warehouse job.

4.Always plan for 2 part time jobs than a full time job.

5.It is better to get into a unionized job with seniority than to break your head over an office job. The so called desk job/office jobs are the real stinkers unlike India where you'll have no job security but will be made to slog at a wage which on averaging for hours will be equal to or less than minimum wage. There will be no option for overtime pay on office jobs unlike the manufacturing/warehouse jobs.

For Example: FEDEX pays $13.50 per hour to start with and you can always move into higher professional levels from the entry point. UPS pays their drivers $25 per hour and there are many who make around $100,000 PA and have their vacations, pension and full health benefits and they are protected by the union. Canada Post pays initially the minimum wage and if you are able to enter full time you end up at $22 per hour.

6.Try to incorporate a small business on the side. Set aside a small amount may be 1000 bucks to start with and try to tinker in a small business on the side. You may succeed or you may fail but you have made a start. The up side on this is that you can write off your expenses from this side show.

7.Always have a plan for a future small business and try to work in it even if it involves low pay.

If you plan to start a restaurant down the road and you are a TECHIE, do not write in this website about starting a restaurant. Get a job in an Indian place or even a Subway or Timmys and see for yourself how it works and then decide to get into a similar business.

The message here is that you cannot learn swimming by reading a book, You need to jump into the water.

8.Always keep building your credit, checking your credit score and use all methods to get a HIGH LINE OF CREDIT.

You need to get credit cards to reach there, but once you get the 100K combined line of credit for your family you can cut your credit cards off.

9.Constantly keep evaluating your financial,social situation and also keep track of YOUR progress than your neighbours progress.

Many a time we lose track of our own success from where we were 3 years ago by comparing ourselves to our friends or neighbours.

Yes your friend TECHIE came to Canada with his IT experience and got a job in RIM and is making 80K. Yes he bought a nice semi-detached home from the 100K he saved from his US stint.

You came from India and did all odd jobs and you are driving your Toyota Corolla and have your condo or town house. Do not be dissuaded by comparing yourself with him. If he loses his IT job where will he go?.Can he/is he prepared to wear the safety shoe and work in a warehouse, while you can do it at a drop of a hat.

10.Have positive attitude and be willing to take risks. If you do so, there is more wealth in Canada to be attained than anywhere in the World.

Like the Great American Poet called Curtis Jackson aka 50 Cents said - "Get Rich - Die Trying"

Do Not Give UP!.



article.php?id=539
Nightmare   
Member since: Apr 06
Posts: 1170
Location:

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 04-07-10 21:17:56

Quote:
Originally posted by voltrex

Just to add, the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ontario (ICAO) introduced in February 26, 2010 the "exception from employment requirement rule", students can now take the CA exams even if they can't find employment at a CA firm.
You still need to fulfill the work experience requirement.

http://www.icao.on.ca/Admissions/RegistrationOverview/EmploymentExemption/1008page11205.aspx

Couple of other things;

- Not all CAs have same job prospects, CA with big 4 experience > CA from a large firm (BDO, GT, RSM) > CA from a mid-size firm.

- Don't expect to become a CFO solely because you are a CA who worked at a CA firm for 2-3 years and then switched to industry.



Voltrex’s post is absolutely misleading. The system of allowing CA from the other countries to write CA exam without first getting a job in CA firm is in existence since at least 1993. The ICAO maintains a register of immigrant CA who have written the CA exam in Canada. I did write the exam in 2002 and after 3 attempts could not pass final exam and hence abandoned it. That is a different story. My point here is that even if a candidate succeeds in passing the exam, subsequently he has to gain the experience before he gets licensed and hence would face the same hurdles which I have elaborated elsewhere in this thread.

Further, CA exam here is totally subjective. The exam is conducted in such a way that no one can fully answer the questions. This provides great leverage to examiner to pick and choose successful candidates. Further, ICAO, though publish the “Model” answer of the past exam, they NEVER publish the ACTUAL l answer by the candidate who scored highest marks or the actual answer by the candidate who passed with the lowest score and hence it is difficult for any candidate to benchmark his/her performance against the other candidates. Further, Canadian CA result has 92% success rate. However, the same drops to 4% for CAs from immigrant countries (90% of the candidates were from India, Pakistn and Bangladesh). ICAO maintains a record of the immigrants who wrote CA exam after making an appeal for the assessment. The register contains data of preceding 10 years and is open to public on request. I had examined that in 2002 and based on that I am making this statement. Is the standard of Indian CA so low?

On the other hand CPA exam is PURELY OBJECTIVE and computer graded. The jokers provide reciprocity to CPAs but they do not provide ANY recognition to CPA who happens to have written the exam from Canada. I have not witnessed more shameful and discriminatory conduct in any civilized society. The reason is simple. These jokers know that only immigrants write CPA exam.



voltrex   
Member since: Nov 09
Posts: 111
Location:

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 05-07-10 00:10:36

Quote:
Originally posted by Nightmare

Quote:
Originally posted by voltrex

Quote:
Originally posted by Nightmare

For example, I tried unsuccessfully to get in to CA program. The requirement is that one should first get in to a CA firm recognized to impart training (Many small and medium CA firms are not recognized). Now age is a big factor for these firms. They prefer Canadian graduates fresh from University. Hence unless you know someone in big CA firm or you have worked in their branches in India it is difficult to get in the program. Of course, there are other options- CGA or CMA. Again, with CGA or CAN one can reach middle management position but CFO position is ruled out.




This is how the CA program works in Australia, Canada, England and Wales, and even Pakistan.

If you have 2.5 years of big 4 audit experience from India, then it will take you about 6 months to a year to be designated.

Accounting firms prefer to hire recent grads, that's how it is in many countries.

Getting into a big 4 or mid-sized accounting firm in Canada is no different than in the US:

a) either directly from school
b) or as an experienced hire

It has nothing to do with Canada.




The Liberal B****s had given full page advertisement in Indian CA magazine stating that Canada welcomes Indian CAs. Now the point I am making is that there are very few firms which are authorized to impart training. Big 4, which are the most scandalous firms (Those who do not believe me should look up USA SEC site. EVERY year these guys pay huge penalty for violations and escape punishment) and have the LARGEST pool of CA student do not employ middle aged immigrant CA unless some one has connection. The mid size firms also have very limited capacity and exploit. Not only that mid size firms provides tax hours but can not provide audit hours and endorsement of audit hours is at the mercy of the partners. I know at least 8 Indian CA who never could register for CA program because of this reason. Voltrex is purposely muddying the issue by talking about England and Australia and Pakistan. I do not know about Pakistan but whatever I know about England and Australia is different from what he has said. Voltrex says that CAs are employed as experienced hire. It is absolutely false and misleading. When they talk about experienced hire, they look for experience from Big 4 only and that too in a rare case otherwise they insist for “Canadian experience” with which ALL CDs are familiar. As far as USA is concerned, all that they require is 2 years work experience under CPA, be it in industry or audit firm (though I am not too sure about this). Knowing these facts, why would a country let CA from some other country migrate? Does it not reflect very sick mentality? Voltrex should ask any immigrant CA doing clerical or labor job as to how does he feel. Knowing pretty well that thousands of professionals from immigrants are forced to abandon their career and seek labor job / clerical job and still persisting with allowing highly qualified professional to migrate to Canada is reflection of weak character.





How to become a CA in Pakistan;

http://www.icap.org.pk/web/links/40/full-timescheme.php

"After successful completion of Foundation & Intermediate modules, students will be eligible to register as trainee students with Training Organizations for completing a mandatory period of 3 years."

How to become a CA in Australia;

http://www.charteredaccountants.com.au/chartered_accountants_program/practical_experience_program/requirements_to_become_a_chartered_accountant

"Three years full-time (or equivalent) experience in an organisation accredited by the Institute"

How to become a ICAEW;

http://www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/143070/icaew_ga/en/Qualifications/Train_for_the_ACA/ACA_international/The_ACA_for_international_students

"To qualify as a chartered accountant a student must:
* pass the ICAEW examinations
* meet our work experience requirements by completing a training contract / agreement with an authorised training employer. "



voltrex   
Member since: Nov 09
Posts: 111
Location:

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 05-07-10 01:27:12

Quote:
Originally posted by Nightmare


Voltrex’s post is absolutely misleading. The system of allowing CA from the other countries to write CA exam without first getting a job in CA firm is in existence since at least 1993.



I was not aware of that.

http://www.settlement.org/site/ecareermaps/ca/path/path2.html

Your Path to Becoming a CA: Non-Recognized Accounting Bodies (CAs form India Pakistan, etc)

# Have your qualifications evaluated by the Institute
# Get a job with a public accounting office in Ontario approved for training CA students
# Register with the Institute as a student
# Complete an approved university course in Canadian business law before or after you register
# Complete the Institute's Professional Program, including the Core Knowledge Examination (CKE), the School of Accountancy (SOA), and the End-of-School Examination (ESE)
# Complete the Uniform Evaluation (UFE)
# Meet the three-year practical work experience requirement

It is evident from the information a CA from India has to obtain employment in a CA approved office prior to taking the CA exams.

I suggest you contact Settlement.org (government funded project) and tell them to update their information


and the ICAO website clearly states that members of non-recognized bodies should register as students, which requires the person to be a resident of Ontario and to be employed or have accepted an offer of employment in an office in Ontario approved by the Institute for training CA students.

http://www.icao.on.ca/Admissions/OccupationalFactSheet/1010page1361.aspx

Bottom line, its not Canada's or ICAOs fault you failed the UFE exam three times and it's not their problem you don't have big 4 audit experience in India like others.

Unlike doctors, you have other alternatives like CGA/CMA.


Quote:
My point here is that even if a candidate succeeds in passing the exam, subsequently he has to gain the experience before he gets licensed and hence would face the same hurdles which I have elaborated elsewhere in this thread.

Quote:
The jokers provide reciprocity to CPAs but they do not provide ANY recognition to CPA who happens to have written the exam from Canada.


But then again as you mentioned earlier its kind of useless if you qualify for reciprocity and don't have the necessary work experience.

Ontario is better than other provinces (Nova Scotia) which only grants reciprocity for CPAs who wrote the exam while residing for two years in the US.

Quote:
I have not witnessed more shameful and discriminatory conduct in any civilized society. The reason is simple.


Can I ask you a question, do you have a bachelors degree from a Canadian university ? Yes or No.

Quote:
These jokers know that only immigrants write CPA exam.



Please tell me which states do Indians get the CPA license from.

There are many CMAs/CGAs , CA students who take the CPA exam as well as qualified CAs (IQEX).



dan   
Member since: Jan 05
Posts: 449
Location:

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 05-07-10 10:39:03

Quote:
Originally posted by febpreet

This is the reason why I have now asked my wife who has been struggling for the last 3 years trying to find a job in her field, to forget everything and try for a Public sector Clerical/Admin. job. Go in a full swing, as I know being a clerical or admin. Asstt. pays more than being a private sector IT professional (with loads of stress everyday).

This is her motto now, and I am very happy about it.




I've been told that there are a lot of Indian origin folks making to senior positions in IBM, Royal Bank etc. So apparently the scene is quite good now for people moving. Or is it ?

Even the federal government has a lot of immigrants now so I think it should be possible to get these public jobs. Or not ?



morning_rain   
Member since: Feb 05
Posts: 1920
Location: British Columbia

Post ID: #PID Posted on: 05-07-10 11:25:07

Quote:
Originally posted by Nightmare

I did write the exam in 2002 and after 3 attempts could not pass final exam and hence abandoned it. That is a different story.



Im sorry to hear this. Im curious as to why you think you had difficulty with this examination?


-----------------------------------------------------------------
~ Morning rain





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