Arvind Kejriwal slapped again while campaigning in Delhi....
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Posted on: 13-05-14 15:27:35
Quote:
Originally posted by elmer fudd
My take, although unsolicited:
Not that it should be condoned, but there are reasons why events happened in Gujarat in 2002. Let us not pretend and ignore the real elephant in the room, ie., the triggering point for the riots, while we are busy solely pointing the needle of suspicion towards Modi.
We don't know if Congress was directly involved, but the ideology and the climate of suspicion all across India and Gujarat created by Congress over the decades certainly had a leading role to play in the train burning incident that triggered the riots in first place.
Congress was and still is capable of engineering communal riots when it suits them. Remember the early nineties when Congress had just been wiped out of federal elections but swept to power in several states in India? The chief ministers of Congress ruled states then began to get too big for their boots, ie. in the eyes of Rajiv and the "high command".
There were simultaneous communal riots engineered in quick succession in several of these states(AP, Karnataka, Maharashtra and I think Gujarat as well). The CM's were cut to size, a couple of them even eased out of office.
The way the riots were covered in those days by MSM dinosaurs, it would shock you today in these days of internet. Not a pip from MSM press about the Congress high command's complicity in the riots. It was the first wake up call for some of us gen Xers got about Indian media establishment, which was obvious even to a very young person.
According to a Supreme court commission(don't remember which one, Sri Krishna Commission I think), a vast majority of these riots were started by people of a certain persuasion. And which party was behind these patsies and who has been engineering the riots in the background all these decades? A large number of AAP supporters are the former supporters of this party(Congress) .
Yes, Modi most likely had hands-off approach for the initial couple of days when the damage was severe, and in that sense he is somewhat complicit as he dared not go against a raging public, or else he would be their next target. But thereafter he was ruthless in putting the riots down.
If Modi should be let go, then so should all the Congress leadership as well as the Naxal infested AAP. Less said about the third front Mulayams the better. Modi has to work within the vagaries of Indian politics, just as everybody else. He has been cleared by court of law, the Supreme court no less.
Sorry for the long winded answer, but this is not a simple "yes" or "no" question.
+1
Quote:
Originally posted by san-hugo
Good to hear so, but dont you think a good leader will take responsibility of such loss of life due to negligence and lack of control over his governance. Moral responsibility to start with, is'nt it ? which he did not. So Modi belongs to same clan of politicians who will stick to there chair EVEN if there is tremendous loss of life under their regime.
On contrary Kejriwal, failing to bring delhi lok pal to reality , despised being on chair. a failure is a failure and a good leader will accept it.
Let's break this down into two separate items, because the comparison you're making here (resigning for riots vs. resigning for lokpal) is light years apart.
Gujarat Riots -
Maybe in an ideal world with perfectly black and white scenarios, the leader would resign. In the real world with its million shades of gray, this does not happen. So the next best thing is for the leader to ensure this never happens again. The years in Gujarat following the riots were all under Modi's leadership and largely peaceful, you have to give him credit for that. If he was the blood-thirsty criminal, Gujarat would not have been peaceful for so many years under his rule.
As someone from India, you already know that the history behind riots is extremely complex. No one person causes them and no one person can stop them.
Lokpal resignation -
I would absolutely not expect him to resign for this. Rather I'd expect him to stick around and get the job done. The resignation felt like a lame attempt to escape the situation he found himself in. But let's humor the implication for a second that he is an idealist and sacrificed the CM post because he did not deliver…I have some questions in that case
1. He initially said he would never enter politics. Changed his mind on that. Strike 1 for idealism.
2. Then he rallied against Congress and took some "kasam" that he will never align with them. He broke that promise too and formed the government with their support. Strike 2 for idealism
3. Then, he resigned in 49 days and net-net, delivered no lasting impact. Strike 3 for idealism
Did he seriously think that he was just going to sit on the CM's chair, wave a wand and change things overnight, especially with the alliance he made with a party he originally claimed were crooks? Is he that dumb? I don't think so.
I'll give him all the benefit of doubt on intention (i.e. he had good intentions), but based on his above actions, he comes across as a hapless and incompetent opportunist. And a party that wants a unprecedented transformational impact on the country cannot progress with a leader like this in my opinion. In the end, just like you, I want the AAP to progress so I look forward to the day where Kejriwal proves this wrong with his actions (and not just words).
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Are you there?
Quote:
Originally posted by DELHI INDIAN
I also want Modi to see PM in 2014 considering other parties. No one wants congress and AAP is too new.
Every one has right to vote to any one but question here is what ever happened during that phase, was that not bad and lack of governance? Why there was no responsibility of CM for such a fiasco wherein we are talking about mis governance of CM in 49 days? ( No favoring AAP and AK here, we have to say right to right and wrong to wrong)
Please guys ,we have to come out of BJP, AAP and Congress mood and think what ever is good for the country.
I'm with you on that. Don't care about BJP/AAP or Congress. India needs really strong leadership at this point and I see Modi as the best option.
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Are you there?
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueLobster
Let's break this down into two separate items, because the comparison you're making here (resigning for riots vs. resigning for lokpal) is light years apart.
Gujarat Riots -
3 Days of mayhem and massacre, easy for a Modi bhakt to forget and talk about subsequent peaceful years. Many other states are peaceful for years together, nobody asks for the credit. Modi failed in those 3 days. He never took the responsibility of his lack of action.
Hope you know during 84, Army was ready in Merut cantt (2 hrs away) on 2nd day morning and message was passed to then govt but Congress purposefully brought it on 4th day. Lack of will from govt ! and similar lack of will from Modi who wanted to save face to RSS that time. Modi changed after international criticism he had to endure.
Agreed that resignation is not the answer in normal circumstance but when there is considerable loss of life, taking responsibility shows a character. I suspect if you appreciated recent resignation of Korean prime minister after people lost lives in ferry incident.
Quote:
Lokpal resignation -
I would absolutely not expect him to resign for this. Rather I'd expect him to stick around and get the job done. The resignation felt like a lame attempt to escape the situation he found himself in. But let's humor the implication for a second that he is an idealist and sacrificed the CM post because he did not deliver…I have some questions in that case
Kejriwal resigned because with his minority govt. it was difficult to function and fulfill promises he made to people. He did not want ot continue on chair and continue to fail to implement what was good for delhites.
Quote:
1. He initially said he would never enter politics. Changed his mind on that. Strike 1 for idealism.
Thats right, Then Kapil Sibbal challenged Anna and his team to come to parliament and pass lok pal. He took the challenge. He says till date he did not want to come to politics.
Keep 1 for idealism and 2 for guts to take bulls by horn
Quote:
2. Then he rallied against Congress and took some "kasam" that he will never align with them. He broke that promise too and formed the government with their support. Strike 2 for idealism
For your red fish memory, flashback to early Dec/Jan, BJP ran away from responsibility first. Kejriwal said no to form government. Congress gave support without asking making a way for All parties and aam janta to force kejriwal into govt and asked to perform as promised (i am sure you were there chanting same). Same BJP and janta like you now criticise him for taking support of congress.
Keep 1 for idealism and strike 10 from BJP and other parties for now changing minds.
Quote:
3. Then, he resigned in 49 days and net-net, delivered no lasting impact. Strike 3 for idealism
Lasting impact is that BJP is sweating everywhere despite riding on incumbency , face of politics is changed fore-ever. youth is taking interest in politics. In 14 years history of this site was politics discussed in any thread in this details by desis, that too a state elections ??? Advent of AAP brought this change in you and in me.. I am indebted to Kejriwal for generating my interest in well being of my country. that is THE lasting impact..
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueLobster
Maybe in an ideal world with perfectly black and white scenarios, the leader would resign. In the real world with its million shades of gray, this does not happen. So the next best thing is for the leader to ensure this never happens again. The years in Gujarat following the riots were all under Modi's leadership and largely peaceful, you have to give him credit for that. If he was the blood-thirsty criminal, Gujarat would not have been peaceful for so many years under his rule.
100 chuhe khaa ke Billi haj ko chalee ...
You have still not shared your thoughts whether Modi abused his power during 2002 riots or not ... as per what you feel & think ... though I feel that tacitly you are also accepting what the world knows to be true ....
Yes I murdered that person ... but I am not a murderer since I did not murder any one before or after that !! ..is how you sound ..
Like it or not time and again BJP RSS combined have prove how how communalist they are ....
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Fido.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fido
100 chuhe khaa ke Billi haj ko chalee ...
You have still not shared your thoughts whether Modi abused his power during 2002 riots or not ... as per what you feel & think ... though I feel that tacitly you are also accepting what the world knows to be true ....
Yes I murdered that person ... but I am not a murderer since I did not murder any one before or after that !! ..is how you sound ..
Like it or not time and again BJP RSS combined have prove how how communalist they are ....
Haj pe jane ki kya zaroorat hai..
Yes, he is communal (I agree), only because the likes of those who did Godhra train burning incident, only understand the communal language.
Then Congress MP Ehsan Jafri shot at people, that made people angry, which triggered a violent outburst of anger, & the outcome everyone knows.
So, to answer your question when Congress MP shoots innocent people its not communal, & you brand this outburst as communal.
If you think so- so be it.
And as far as Kejriwal, he will disappear in a shit hole very soon.
Quote:
Originally posted by dhaikin
And as far as Kejriwal, he will disappear in a shit hole very soon.
We will see to it. One shouldn't shout from rooftop all the time as 'the time' is strongest of them all. Noone knows what will happen and as a result you might have to chew your words/past 'imperfect' wisdom. Remember, Delhi Assembly exit polls that were predicting 8 seats for AAP?
As per the exit polls, Modi, though is all poised to become a PM is still short of majority for BJP on his own. So, there goes your 'Modi' wave down the drain on an onset.
Who knows, you might have a surprise given the trends of 2004 and 2009 exit polls that also proved to be wrong all the way.
Excerpts from an excellent BBC article:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27387443
"Besides, such polls in India are based on random representative samples of voters drawn from the voter list of the country's Election Commission.
A truly wide and representative sample is critical to polling in a country where 70% of its people live in villages.
"That means any election survey in order to be representative should try to conduct about 70% of its interviews in the villages and rural areas and only about 30% interviews in the towns and cities. But this is not followed by most of the market research agencies that are engaged in election polling in India," writes Praveen Rai, a colleague of Mr Kumar at the CSDS, in a paper on the subject."
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