One more tale of immigrant woes
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=841&e=1&u=/nm/20041129/wl_canada_nm/canada_immigration_col
Immigrant Professionals Say Canada Offers False Hope
21 minutes ago Canada - Reuters
By Gilbert Le Gras
OTTAWA (Reuters) - Abdulrahim Noori was a doctor in Afghanistan (news - web sites), but now he fries chicken as a short-order cook in Canada while he undergoes the long process of requalifying to practice medicine here.
"This is how my situation will be for four or five years, until I improve my situation in Canada as a doctor," he said.
Noori, 40, worked as a physician at a United Nations (news - web sites) hospital in Kabul and was chosen for intensive ultrasound training in Pakistan so he could come back to Afghanistan and train his peers. Now he is learning English in the hope he can one day have those ultrasound skills validated in Canada.
Noori, who lives in Winnipeg, is one of tens of thousands of immigrants toiling in Canada as fast-food workers, taxi drivers or convenience store clerks -- jobs that do not match their qualifications at home.
And while U.S. immigration policy focuses to a large extent on reuniting families, newcomers to Canada say Ottawa's emphasis on qualified, highly educated immigrants gives the newcomers false hopes that their skills can be easily used.
"I would give Canada's immigration system a failing grade," said Don De Voretz, an immigration economist at Vancouver's Simon Fraser University who reckons up to one in three skilled immigrants to Canada eventually quit the country.
"We're doing an awful job. That's because of the typical Canadian problem: The provinces control the licensing and the feds control immigration and they don't talk to one another. That makes for an inefficient system."
Rene Goussanou, a French-trained pilot and father of three from the African country of Benin, has been teaching French in Winnipeg after he learned he would need to enroll in a pilot's school to convert his French license into a Canadian one.
That came as an unpleasant surprise, he said. The Canadian Embassy in Abidjan had pored over his qualifications and gave the impression there would be an evaluation procedure when he got to the country, Goussanou said. He found none exists.
"The Canadian air force, which is looking for pilots, rejected my application because I am not yet a citizen," Goussanou said. "My perception of Canada has now changed."
Ottawa's last budget set aside C$40 million ($34 million) to study how to make it quicker and easier for newcomers to bring their credentials to Canadian standards, and Ottawa spends C$5 million a year to help immigrants learn French or English.
But Maria Minna, parliamentary secretary for immigration from 1996 to 1998, said she knew of skilled immigrants who had quit Canada out of frustration at trying to upgrade their skills but were able to requalify in the United States.
Efforts to solve the problem, and remove the frustration for the would-be professionals center around training and internships, although Immigration Minister Judy Sgro said some of the burden rests on those who want to work in Canada.
Prospective immigrants should study Immigration Canada's Web site to find out what they could do to upgrade their skills at home first, she said.
"On the weekend, in the Maritimes, I spoke to someone who is working in a chocolate factory who was a doctor who came to Canada and frankly I feel that is unacceptable," Sgro told a parliamentary committee this month.
"We want doctors to come here as doctors. They need a year of an opportunity to intern in our hospitals so they learn about the technical differences between their country and ours," she said.
Noori, who worked for 15 years as a general practitioner in Kabul, said Sgro's internship idea may be part of the solution. Doctors learn globally standard skills but their ability to practice is limited by language and familiarity with technology and procedures, he said.
"In January, I went to (Winnipeg's biggest hospital) to show my ultrasound certificate and they told me in May my marks were not high enough to enter the orientation course," Noori said in accented but easily understood English.
"I'm bitter because there's no possibility of working in this because I need one year of courses," he added.
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I have only 2 cents to contribute, not a cent more, not a cent less ;-)
Canada needs people desperately because of shrinking population and the brain drain which takes place because Canadians themselves move down south.
The question is who gets the Job when a Canadian (ethnicity not relevant here) leaves Canada?
The govt would do well to scrap the skilled immigration program and replace it with a Work permit program similar to the H1 program in US, where as and when you require skilled people you call them and when you dont you either reduce the quota or do away with it temporarily.
That way the immigrant will have a Job when he lands in Canada or will at least be in line for one with basic upgradation of skills provided by the hiring company.
On the other hand let the familiy and business class program continue as it is. You get people and and influx of capital, both which serve Canada well.
The people who come here on family class are not all old senior people who cannot (or will not work). Many are quite young to middle age folks, who themselves go out to work to survive. These people would take care of the need to have semi skilled to completely non skilled people in Canada.
Then we have refugees who are more than happy to do the jobs that skilled people hate to do.
That the govt is on to this is a good sign, late for many people, yet hopeful for many many others.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
mercury:
What you have written is exactly what is needed!!
When coming to Canada ITSELF will become restricted, THEN we will have no "whiners", that crenshaw/jake3d/BL etc etc are so much against!! Attack the problem at the root! The Canadian govt. needs to recognize that there is a real problem! Then find and implement a real and feasible solution!
Denigrating people who do not get jobs, as "whiners" when they are critical of the system that fooled them, does no good! Giving all that pep talk, opening "success stories" section and filling it up with, second hand/third hand/fake and made-up stories does no good!
If out of a 100 immigrants, only 20/25 get a decent job soon enough and the rest have to struggle, re-educate, package themselves for sale whatever, then there is something wrong with the SYSTEM and not with the immigrant!!
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Diogenes
====================
The Cynic
Quote:
Orginally posted by DiogenestheCynic
When coming to Canada ITSELF will become restricted, THEN we will have no "whiners", that crenshaw/jake3d/BL etc etc are so much against!!
Since my name is on this list, could you please show me when I've called people "whiners" and written "against" them?
I can show you several posts of mine where I've said that there IS a genuine issue here and the govt. needs to do something. All I've protested is the way the issues are presented and exaggerated.
Quote:
Attack the problem at the root! The Canadian govt. needs to recognize that there is a real problem! Then find and implement a real and feasible solution!
Denigrating people who do not get jobs, as "whiners" when they are critical of the system that fooled them, does no good!
If out of a 100 immigrants, only 20/25 get a decent job soon enough and the rest have to struggle, re-educate, package themselves for sale whatever, then there is something wrong with the SYSTEM and not with the immigrant!!
Can you tell me how this stuff helps anybody??? You talk big, however that's pretty much all I've seen. When are you actually planning to DO something? Or do you think your rants will bring about a dramatic change in Canada's immigration policies?
Really. All this "govt. should do this and govt. should do that" sounds so vacant , man. Why don't you get off the mic. and actually start doing something?
Or at least let others.
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Are you there?
Location: Ottawa (Now in Bangalore)
Posted on: 29-11-04 20:06:01
Quote:
Orginally posted by BlueLobster
Quote:
Orginally posted by DiogenestheCynic
When coming to Canada ITSELF will become restricted, THEN we will have no "whiners", that crenshaw/jake3d/BL etc etc are so much against!!
Since my name is on this list, could you please show me when I've called people "whiners" and written "against" them?
I can show you several posts of mine where I've said that there IS a genuine issue here and the govt. needs to do something. All I've protested is the way the issues are presented and exaggerated.
Quote:
Attack the problem at the root! The Canadian govt. needs to recognize that there is a real problem! Then find and implement a real and feasible solution!
Denigrating people who do not get jobs, as "whiners" when they are critical of the system that fooled them, does no good!
If out of a 100 immigrants, only 20/25 get a decent job soon enough and the rest have to struggle, re-educate, package themselves for sale whatever, then there is something wrong with the SYSTEM and not with the immigrant!!
Can you tell me how this stuff helps anybody??? You talk big, however that's pretty much all I've seen. When are you actually planning to DO something? Or do you think your rants will bring about a dramatic change in Canada's immigration policies?
Really. All this "govt. should do this and govt. should do that" sounds so vacant , man. Why don't you get off the mic. and actually start doing something?
Or at least let others.
In other words what BL wanted to say was :-
Ration ki baat kar, bhashan dena ho toh Kisi election mein jaker khada ho jaa
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Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
Canada needs people desperately because of shrinking population and the brain drain which takes place because Canadians themselves move down south.
Agree with the first part of the sentence. First time I've heard about the Canadian brain-drain hence immigration theory. Could you elaborate, possibly with some links?
Quote:
The question is who gets the Job when a Canadian (ethnicity not relevant here) leaves Canada?
Jeez. Do you mean all immigrants are poor innocent victims of the grand conspiracy and their getting a job entirely depends on a Canadian leaving his/her job?
Quote:
The govt would do well to scrap the skilled immigration program and replace it with a Work permit program similar to the H1 program in US, where as and when you require skilled people you call them and when you dont you either reduce the quota or do away with it temporarily.
That way the immigrant will have a Job when he lands in Canada or will at least be in line for one with basic upgradation of skills provided by the hiring company.
Maybe. But remember, we're talking about two VERY different economies here. What works for the U.S. may not necessarily work for Canada.
Secondly, the reason I came to Canada was because I never wanted this hassle of getting exploited by my employer because he held the keys to my greencard. Canadian immigration was a big relief as compared to the constant stress of being on a temporary H-1 where so much depended on your employer.
The work-permit concept in Canada does exist and lot of people are here on permits. Maybe the govt. should promote it more than immigration, there's some merit to the thought.
Realistically speaking though, how many people here think that this change is going to come about soon?
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Are you there?
Just to give some wider perspective here --
Before the days of H-1B quotas and backlogs, the Green Card was the de facto mechanism by which employers hired prospective employees.
Back in the 70s and 80s, getting an employment based Green Card took less than 2 months.
Now it takes more than 4 months to get a friggin' H-1B approval.
The H-1B program itself has been around since the 1950s (I think I read 1952 somewhere), but it was mostly for some very specialised occupations (research, etc.).
Most "normal" employees (like engineers, etc.) would be sponsored for a GC by their employer and they would come to the US in less than 2 months.
Because of the technology boom in the 80s and the IT boom in the 90s, the entire farce of H-1B quotas and H-1B-to-GC "blackmail" started.
H-1B currently is nothing more than bonded slavery, for a majority of the workers in the US.
That said, overall, I feel that an employment based immigration system is a superior system to what Canada has currently.
The Canadian-style immigration system works well for those countries that have very limited requirements for immigrants every year, like New Zealand.
New Zealand has a system whereby the "passing marks" are a moving target from year-to-year, depending on the requirements of the country.
I think that is a much better system and serves the need of that country very well.
Canada, on the other hand, needs a US-style system where residency is based on employment.
If Canada does not, or cannot, do that, then they should modify their selection criteria to give more weigtage to those occupations that are in demand and less weight to those occupations that are not in demand.
My $0.02 CAD.
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"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."
-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"
