Are there any Indians or are we just a bunch of Gujjus, Bongs, Sikhs, Brahmins,
Jump to Page:
< Previous [ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ] [ 4 ] [ 5 ] [ 6 ] [ 7 ] [ 8 ] Next >
Posted on: 11-02-06 08:21:01
Your question is one for which generations have been struggling to find an answer. More so recently when times have become more confusing. For earlier generations, freedom struggle acted as a big unifying and purifying force.
When you are young you seriously search for an answer. After some time it still remains a question.
But ofcourse, entire India is not filled with water, there are a large number of Indians alive and kicking. Maybe not united and maybe not a catalysing force yet, but still there.
Quote:YOu make a few very valid points - when fighting for freedom a common cause united us - so we know we are capable of unity - then why can we not sustain that. During peace times all we can do is stab each other in the back, be corrupt, be petty, seek out differeneces rather than similarities. We then have this misgotten belief that freedom equates to the right to be indisciplined. As a nation we have yet to display the maturity that such a large democracy needs. Look at China - they have realised that a democratic system will not work - so they force discipline inorder to ge tthe nation organised, economically powerful and vibrant. The average person does not give a toss as to whether he has freedom or not - his first goal is to be economically sound. China is achieveing that. So too is India - there is no denying that. But I am ashamed at how much slower the pace is Vs China. And the only reason for the differing pace of progress is discipline, unity and national pride. In the global arena China is undeniably a far more significant force than India and that is a shame. From infrastructure, to oil, to manufacturing and even into arenas like the Olympics. A simple question to you - when do you think India will be given the opportunity to host the Summer Olympics? That is another test of teh world's confidence in our organisational and project networking skiils. And thr age old question of when we will win more than 1 medal. Guess how many China will win in 2008? Even the last stronghold of Indians - the software industry - will slowly be taken over by the Chinese. They realised a long time ago that we Indians were more capable than them in two fields - software and knowledge of English and they have worked over the last 2 decades to correct that and we can now see them beginning to reap the benefits. In the meantime we will sit and beat our chests about how great we are, whilst our politicians continue to loot our country. Frankly I would much rather have the British plunder our nation than our own people.
Orginally posted by LD
Your question is one for which generations have been struggling to find an answer. More so recently when times have become more confusing. For earlier generations, freedom struggle acted as a big unifying and purifying force.
When you are young you seriously search for an answer. After some time it still remains a question.
But ofcourse, entire India is not filled with water, there are a large number of Indians alive and kicking. Maybe not united and maybe not a catalysing force yet, but still there.
Yes, there are more than 1 billion of us alive, most of us are kicking whilst 40% remain below poverty. It is sad that we cannot become the catalytic force that we could be.
Each of us has to do somethoing about that ...and not let it convenienetly remain a question that we leave for 'someone else' to answer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Big B
<<<<Each of us has to do somethoing about that ...and not let it convenienetly remain a question that we leave for 'someone else' to answer.>>>>
This is the Guru Mantra, the key to success.
Some very valid points, and I think the language and culture barriers within India are probably its biggest weakness.
I don't however agree with following China's model. Some of the most powerful countries in the world are democracies, including the most powerful one. They didn't have to follow China's model. on the contrary China is now trying to emulate their economic models. The customized model that worked for China will not work for India.
And look at Russia, communism obviously didn't work there either. When the iron curtain was finally lifted, it exposed some very large holes in what was once considered an undisputed superpower and America's equivalent. The "open" Russia is not a shadow of its former self. You don't know what holes will be exposed when China's iron gate opens, don't believe everything you read in the media.
Coming back to the point of not being divisive, I think it may be prudent to start with a definition of what it means to be Indian. Tried to do a search on google and most of the initial results were about Native Americans.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Are you there?
Quote:Great observations. I raised the China flag only to provoke discussion. I am no advocate of their system - one that curbs freedom of expression, artificially controlled birth rates and skews it in favour of the male and a variety of others negatives fall outs of their model. However, all I feel is that at this point in their nation's history and the kind of launch pad that they seek to build for economic growth - it might be the right thing to do. Once they can achieve a general upliftment in standards of living and distribute prosperity to a wider set of their masses, increase literacy levels and education, then will be the time to shift to democratic systems. What good is all the freedom and the democracy to the starving millions in India whose plight has only deteriorated since Independance? What good is democracy when half the population is illiterate, does not vote or even do not know why they vote for one person or party Vs another. Do not get me wrong, I will not exchange the freedom that democracies provide, but then it is all fine and dandy for me to say this given the fact that I have a roof over my head, 3 square meals a day, kids in school and savings in the bank. What we have done with our freedom is to me, a gross insult to all those who gave their lives for us to have it.
Orginally posted by BlueLobster
Some very valid points, and I think the language and culture barriers within India are probably its biggest weakness.
I don't however agree with following China's model. Some of the most powerful countries in the world are democracies, including the most powerful one. They didn't have to follow China's model. on the contrary China is now trying to emulate their economic models. The customized model that worked for China will not work for India.
And look at Russia, communism obviously didn't work there either. When the iron curtain was finally lifted, it exposed some very large holes in what was once considered an undisputed superpower and America's equivalent. The "open" Russia is not a shadow of its former self. You don't know what holes will be exposed when China's iron gate opens, don't believe everything you read in the media.
Coming back to the point of not being divisive, I think it may be prudent to start with a definition of what it means to be Indian. Tried to do a search on google and most of the initial results were about Native Americans.
Democracy is not the panacea that we think it is. It is an eventual destination or goal but each nation will have to take its own journey to reach there. Look at what is happening in Iraq when we try and force and transplant another system overnight. This journey requires time and patience and a unique path for each populace.
Finally, I do not think that the US can call itself the torch bearer of democracy, enlightenment or world peace. How did Bush get elected for his first term. If something like that had happened in India we woudl have been crapping all over our corrupt system, but it is okay for Bush to have his brother rig the polls to have his sibling elected. Then the global display of the national idiocy of the US when they chose to re-elect Bush, then the issue of the fact that the US will never be open minded and enlightened enough to elect a Black or a woman to the highest office in our lifetime. Less developed nations have had women lead them a long long time ago. And finally, which is the only nation in our planet's history that has even used a nuclear weapon in actual combat?
I digressed to make a wide variety of points - but at the end of the day, India is no way near reaching even a fraction of its true potential and I can only blame that on our indiscipline, inherent corruption, divisiveness and misplaced national pride and misue of our well earned freedom.
Also, our diversity in culture and language should enrich us rather than cause us to become weaker. However, it weakens us because we seek differences to run each down rather than learn from each other.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Big B
Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
Also, our diversity in culture and language should enrich us rather than cause us to become weaker. However, it weakens us because we seek differences to run each down rather than learn from each other.
Isnt that a human condition rather than an 'Indian' condition? If you look at any of the 'nationalistic' parties not only in India but the world over, a huge part of their platform is based on being divisive. IMO Nationalism and religion have the same weakness and strengths and can bring out the best and the worst in humanity. State imposed nationalism like that of China can have disastrous results as that of the third riech, albeit preceded by brilliant advances much like Germany had enjoyed under the Nazis.
By looking for 'Indians' who are more like you, arent you again trying to focus on that group with similar interests like the others (mallu,gujju,bongs etc). In fact isnt that what brought you to CD?
p.s: I'm nottrying to imply that being Nationalistic is not a virtue, only trying to ask those of you who can question yourselves if its a virtue you can identify with.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Recommended Services- Servicedomino.com
http://www.servicedomino.com
Quote:
Orginally posted by jake3d
Quote:
Orginally posted by Big B
Also, our diversity in culture and language should enrich us rather than cause us to become weaker. However, it weakens us because we seek differences to run each down rather than learn from each other.
Isnt that a human condition rather than an 'Indian' condition? If you look at any of the 'nationalistic' parties not only in India but the world over, a huge part of their platform is based on being divisive. IMO Nationalism and religion have the same weakness and strengths and can bring out the best and the worst in humanity. State imposed nationalism like that of China can have disastrous results as that of the third riech, albeit preceded by brilliant advances much like Germany had enjoyed under the Nazis.
By looking for 'Indians' who are more like you, arent you again trying to focus on that group with similar interests like the others (mallu,gujju,bongs etc). In fact isnt that what brought you to CD?
p.s: I'm nottrying to imply that being Nationalistic is not a virtue, only trying to ask those of you who can question yourselves if its a virtue you can identify with.
Just because it exists in a majority does not make it right. I do not give a damn if it is a human condition or an Indian condition - it makes us as a race - be it Indian or Human - weaker. We proudly announce that we are at the peak of human achievement and civilization - but I beg to differ - we might be on the verge of a cure for cancer or putting a man on Pluto or the next generation I pod, but what good is all of that if we are also on the verge of annihilating our entire planet because we have reached an all time low in terms of tolerance and understanding? The examples of Nationalism you quote are without dispute anarchistic, divisive and intolerant of those unaccpeting. But that is only because we feel that we can only be nationalistic by bringing others down. Surely I can be proud to be whoever I am and also allow others to be proud of who they are. After I did not choose to be born an Indian - it was an accident of birth. So why get so emotional about it that I run others down in order to prove my superiority - that makes me no different to a Hitler - right? Yet we crap all over him becasue it make us look enlightened and good. At least he had the courage and the gumption to show his fanaticism and bigotry and not mask it in political correctness that we see so much of around us these days.
I am looking for "Indians" only because I have only found a precious few and hope that there are more around. I am fortunate to have friends from my school and college days as well as friends from across the globe - I have gained immensely from the diversity of my freindships as it has taught me to be more tolerant, accepting of differences and also shown me that there is always something we can learn from another - if we only give ourselves the chance to do so.
I came to CD, because I chanced upon it during one of my google searches yesterday and was immediately nauseated by the numerous discussions I saw about people wanting to meet Gujjus or Bengalis or Tamilians et al. Trust me, I am not searching for similar people to me or other 'Indians' alone. I am and always will be anti clique. I only wish to forge friendships with peole who are not narrow minded enough to judge others by birth characteristics but rather by what they stand for or against.
You sound like you have a very interesting profession. I used to be an artist in my youth - was the lead singer and guitarist in my college band, oil painter, poet, actor - then it all went horribly wrong when I completed my MBA!!!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Big B
