Jake,

I agree with your comments about education. I also prefer NA style (broader view, inter-subject relationship) education over Indian style (cramming, narrowly focused subject silos).

IMO, NA style education in early stage of child development encouarges thinking across the board, outside the box and in general leadership qualities whereas Indian style develops bookish knowledge, narrow view and in general worker bees qualities. Both education systems develop two very different perspective on life.

Majority of successful NA Indians were successful in assimilating both systems to their advantage. I also feel lot of first generation Indian immigrants are responsible for creating ABCD dilemma by trying to force entirely different value system than what kids saw outside the home. I know few very successful first generation Indian and they lament about how their grown up kids pursuing writing, literature, and public policy instead of engineering and medical fields.

When I was studying in US, we used to joke that Indian education system digs deeper but narrow holes where as american system digs wider but shallow holes. In the end, I feel I matured lot more in 4 yrs of unprotected life and education in US than 18 years of sheltered life and education in India.

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Orginally posted by jake3d

A note about education. I really prefer the well rounded education that kids get here compared to the focus on pure academics in India. I read an article that the school I studied in in India till the 10th standard, now wants children in the first standard to write essays. The principal of the school is the same lady who, when I was in the 6/7th standard slapped me numb because I was actually sketching the story(history class) that she was teaching that day. I was sent packing to the principals office where the priest ...slapped me some more. My father was called to school the next day. My flipbooks(animations) which I had made in my rough books were shown along with my other drawings to demonstrate how bad I was. I was completely humuliated because I was so fond of art and animation even then. Needless to say I never drew in school again.
However, art was always my calling as my life has proved. I have made quite a good living out of it too. Only I wish my teachers had nurtured it more instead of making me feel like a criminal.

My daughter is quite artistic, infact you can see her drawings in my short film @ jacobv.com. She is really encouraged to follow it in her public school. I would NEVER want her educated in India due to my experiences.

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I was a pretty average student in India myself, where I studied till the 12th standard. I don't think I was stupid, I just hated cramming and could never bring myself to it, no matter what the consequence.

I remember the 12th standard quite distinctly. Hardly any students ever came to school because everyone was busy running from one private tuition to another. We were repeatedly told to "cram, cram, cram". It didn't matter if it was mathematics or biology, cramming was the answer to all problems. All kind of really expensive "guides" (guide books) were avaible as well, each asssiting in futher cramming. I had friends who would "study" 16 hours a day (one of those guys stood first in Gujarat), where "study" was defined as remembering each answer word for word to every question possible. We had a girl in our apartment building who would read out ALOUD answers to questions everyday till midnight (YES, even math and English). She got about 85% or so. And take my word for it, I knew her personally, she didn't even deserve a C based on pure intellect.

I was fond of literature right from the start. I used to read my English textbook even before the school year began, because i was loved the o'henry or tolstoy short stories and the browning poems. I was better at English in every way than anybody I knew in class (and this was in Gujarat, so the difference was pretty sizeable). Yet in the 12th exam, I scored a measly 65 out of 100, whereas another guy who I knew sucked at English scored 90. Figure this, HE was embarassed when I told him my mark. I asked him how he did it and he told me he wrote word for word answers from a popular "Guide". And here I was, wasting my time constructing well thought of and highly imaginative answers to the questions. My resentment was beyond words.

I can't speak for other states, but the education system in Gujarat is really sick. We churn out parrots everyday.

And what about P.E.? Absolutely no encouragement to pursue ANY sport of any kind. It is because of our wonderful education system that despite being a country of a billion people, we have a tough time winning ONE gold medal at the olympics. What a shame!

I was lucky enough to go to university overseas. Develped a liking for computers and scored As in all my comp. scie. courses. My relatives in India used to tell me this was because "Education overseas is very easy". I didn't bother explaining to them that I scored good grades because my interst in computers was cultivated and I wasn't graded on stupid questions like "What year was the floppy drive invented? What was the exact home address of the scientist who invented it?".

Phew! I'd like to smash with a hammer this notion that our Indian school education is somehow far superior than the western one, just because some kid in grade 5 in India knows his multiplication tables better than a 5th grader overseas.

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Are you there?

sorry to intrude in the discussion. i thought however you may find my experience useful. i am a canadian from london, ontario, who stumbled upon your website due to interest sparked by two indian friends of mine.

i feel obliged to comment on the impressions of so many indians who have moved to canada and have found nothing but hardship. the word on all your minds is "unfairness" perhaps; although many of you are qualified to work in other fields with relevant degrees (even MBAs, engineering degrees, etc) you find yourselves working as menial laborers in canada.

i can tell you that your intuitions are correct: the purpose of canada is not to get donald trump like riches and move to malibu (there is no equivalent in canada even!), but to buy a small home and cut your grass every day.

speaking as a native born wasp canadian, i can tell you that canada is not dynamic. canadians are not dynamic like our friends to the south. what canada offers is security, socially and financially.

education is free, healthcare is free, though mediocre. again, this is because we are not dynamic; we are mediocre. there are no Harvards, but there are no Bronxes, no LA riots, no racial tension.

i left canada in 1995 never to return because there were no jobs in my field. i received my MA in 1990 and could never find a suitable job in canada. so i did what i had to: i went abroad and started a new life in asia! in indonesia.

it took quite a while to learn the language in indonesia, find a good job, adapt to the culture, the weather! (36 degrees... every day! and the rainy season!)

but in the end, after almost a decade, i have a good life here; a family, a house, two cars, insurance, etc.

my point is, many of you seem to be disappointed or crestfallen, but this is the experience of all newcomers to a new country. when did i not despair?

but you will succeed. by coming to canada, by making the trip and risking it all, you have shown that you have the mettle to do what it takes to get what you want.

don't give up because in life there is no giving up, only struggle.

i wish you well, my fellow canadians.

chris

Hi,

Bluelobster & Chris your views are really very appreciated. Well done!

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Visit-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CanadianDesan/

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Orginally posted by Chris

my point is, many of you seem to be disappointed or crestfallen, but this is the experience of all newcomers to a new country. when did i not despair?

but you will succeed. by coming to canada, by making the trip and risking it all, you have shown that you have the mettle to do what it takes to get what you want.

don't give up because in life there is no giving up, only struggle.

i wish you well, my fellow canadians.

chris

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"Change before you have to" : Jack Welch

When I read first few posts in this Thread, I thought this to be same old story of +ve & -ve fight. But this Thread is now 6 pages long, and still going strong.

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Orginally posted by BlueLobster
I can't speak for other states, but the education system in Gujarat is really sick. We churn out parrots everyday.

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Mumbai Maazi Ladki ...

Chris, Welcome to the discussion. Your inputs add a greater dimension to this hot topic.
I completely agree with you. The fact that asians come to canada proves their mettle to strive for something better and they should not give it up easily by returning back.

The fact the you moved to indonesia speaks volumes too.There is no general rule to govern any profession over which place is better. Every case is different.

I remain very upbeat about Canada, while no one should expect to become a Donald Trump here but every successful professional can expect lead to a lifestyle which only a privileged few can afford in India and ofcourse enjoy much safer social, political and environmental conditions.

As for the educational system, however bad we may call the western/canadian system we must not forget that is is the same system which has for ages been producing pioneers in every feild. Univ of Toronto alone has produced more Noble prize winners that all universities in india taken together. And those pioneers got local canadian schooling not indian. If some passouts cannot do 2+2 blame them not the system.
One can find similar duffers who are passouts from indian schools as well.
The passout of the same Canadian education system who could develop a sociecty and its systems as good as it is. It may have many flaws but it is better than many indian systems, isint it?


I am proud of the education I got in india but the stresses it puts on the student and their families is brutal. It is like a race horse with blinders on.

It would be interesting to know how well Chris could you adapt to indonesian systems after living in the west all your life.

Jake, you are right what makes this discussion more interesting is the strong conflicting views from Biomed, Chandresh and others. Looking forward to their rebuttals as well. I'd like to get convinced by their way of thinking, provided they provide a strong and convincing argument.


comeon guys, we are listening ...

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What can be imagined, can be achieved.