Ok, Just one last question to you Jake (and any one else who is interested)....

Since you say (and I agree now) that everything is doen for self interest, does one "price in" the cost of achieving something material?

YOu know what I am saying, If the west knows that if it goes after oil etc... which happens to be in Arabia now, there might be some backlash and that you finally lay it down side by side and do an economic analysis and say "Yeah , that ok, we expected it and we have priced it in out plans".

Kind of similar to the Stock market.

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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.

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Orginally posted by mercury6

Since you say (and I agree now) that everything is doen for self interest, does one "price in" the cost of achieving something material?

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Orginally posted by jake3d

Do you do this(factor in the actual 'price') when you watch the F1...cars burning oil from the those Arabian lands, for wanton entertaintment? If you and I do not...why will the govt/corporations do any different?

I wish we had the foresight and the will . I guess thats why we put the people who do have the will and foresight...on a pedestal and call them prophets and saints.

Putting the blame on corporations/westgovt/politicians is easy. However, all they do is pander to us...the self-interest driven individual.

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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.

How many people actually felt sympathetic in britain wehn the brits kept conquering, slaughtering raping almost the entire world for over two hundred years.
Seems like we have forgotten how we were oppressed and treated for more than 2 centuries.

Did anyone actually believe that brits are going to be fair and square.
They have been renowned for being supreme rascists. I have been there a couple times to see my family and I myself have seen the way they behave. I am not surprised that they killed the guy and I will not be surprised when they keep killing many more but i do think this is not going to stop. This is a race till finish and someone is going to win it.

I cannot imagine what it will be like when all the moderate and liberal muslims also think taht its enuff from the west and maybe alqaeda is doing the right thing and lets join in. History has a way of its own and it keeps repeating itself . We will have to dance the way they want us if they are in power just as they are dancing to the states tune right now.

To me the root cause of the problem is the way brits divieded Israel and started the whole mess just as they left a messs in our hearts by creating pakistan and india. May be you dont realise how difficult it is but to someone who has half his family in pakistan and half killed during partition would certainly not feel sympathetic to brits dying.
I know an eye for an eye is not answer but sometimes it does solace the grieving heart but then again a wrong is a wrong. If you think a son should not pay for his fathers wrongs than its not true coz he does inherit the dads name and money and everything that goes with it so even after generations the hate and the differences exist i can see it being justified.

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"Progress comes from deviation".

On a side note if anybody finds my comments or posts offensive or irritating please ignore it and if that still bothers you; please write to me and I will demonstrate.

I feel Tony Blair is right when he said, "with the twisted logic they will always find some reason"... try something similar in the middle east and u will be dealt with... so sterny.. no human rights group... no courts.. nothing.

The problem lies somewhere else not with those young guys actually doing it.

As a supporter of Bush and Blair, However i feel the shooting of Brazilian was completly wrong and could and should have been avoided.

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Orginally posted by Azazf
To me the root cause of the problem is the way brits divieded Israel and started the whole mess just as they left a messs in our hearts by creating pakistan and india. May be you dont realise how difficult it is but to someone who has half his family in pakistan and half killed during partition would certainly not feel sympathetic to brits dying.

I know an eye for an eye is not answer but sometimes it does solace the grieving heart but then again a wrong is a wrong. If you think a son should not pay for his fathers wrongs than its not true coz he does inherit the dads name and money and everything that goes with it so even after generations the hate and the differences exist i can see it being justified.

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Orginally posted by Azazf
I cannot imagine what it will be like when all the moderate and liberal muslims also think taht its enuff from the west and maybe alqaeda is doing the right thing and lets join in.

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Some fresh material (it looks stale though).....

Where does the west's interest really lie.....does it lie in continued turmoil in the mideast? If that is the case then it wont be long before the the moderate arabs stop being so...If thats the case then they are no better than anybody else...even if you discount morality...its plain out wrong...because it hurts them as much (materially and AFAS being secure goes). Surely there is a better way to do business.

Most attempts at fair governments (democratic and otherwise) in the Arab world in the last 100 years have been sabotaged by the West.

The west can continue using terrorism as a smokescreen , all the while ignoring the moderates claims and grievances.

The west also doesnt need to tell anybody when to change, when to throw out their religion and when to embrace this or that system. They did take their own time when dealing with problems in their own country. An example would be Slavery in America. It took almost a 100 years to free them (civil war) and another 100 years for that to really take life (black civil rights movement). In America (and Canada) women got the right to vote only in the early part of 20th century...So you see only when there was an internal struggle that they came to senses. This internal struggle is mostly non-violent too.

Now if you argue that why dont the arabs struggle and fight the evil dictators, kings etc....Its because they are met with overwhelming power (and this power comes with guns, tanks etc... from the west) .
Fight againts Saddam and you see what happens. Fight the Shah of Iran and you see what happens ...Fight the Saudi King and see what happens....Fight the General in Islamabad and see what happens. Do you think people havent done so?

They can still do it. It doesnt make them a coward if they dont though. The right time may not be now. To force issues with all these countries who have only been free from colonial rule (at least on paper) for really not long period. In terms of history 50 - 100 years is not much.
As seinfeld said maybe it would be better to let things resolve of their own momentum. you hurry things up now , you create more problems for the future.

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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.