Posted on: 30-04-09 23:10:16
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Originally posted by blorean
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Originally posted by Nightmare
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Originally posted by investpro
Right on brother!
Montek Ahluwalia said the same thing when he was here on April 15. Many all over the world say the same thing, even I do, as I am sure you do, but that doesn't make news.
NY Times says it and man it makes news. Damn sad.
NY Times ain't the end of the world.
We should be sending out such commentaries made by columnists in TOI and other Indian newspapers.
That NY Times says it- don't carry much weight for me.
But will for many of the non Indians.
Nonetheless, good to know that the NY Times has put in a + word.
I think you missed the vital point here! This is not an article from NYT. It is a reader's comment in NYT. NYT or for that matter USA do not give a damn to India or Indian democracy. There are couple of CD members who get enthused by any positive news about India and rush to post on web site. Sanjeevm is one such person.
By the way, I do not consider India a democratic country measured by modern democratic standards. A country where there is reservation of more than 50% in higher education and jobs for vertain caste and religion is not democratic by any standard. Those who will jump on this observation, please Google and read ongoing litigation on affirmative action in US supreme court before doing so. It is toolong to paste here but arguments for and against are very informative. Hopefully, you will cometo same conclusion as mine that India is no democracy. Further, looking from practical point of view where most MPs are elected on caste affliation or religious bias (Read minority appeasement) can never be called democracy. India is a big joke.
And yet India (the sub-continent) has come this far hasn't it? Even if it is a joke, amidst all this morbid humour, things do happen and it shows. As for the involvement of religion in politics that may not ever go away.
Just remember progress is an ongoing process. You cannot ever draw a line and say, this is it.
What in your opinion is a flawless democracy? Care to share?
I agree there is no flawless democracy. We all live in imperfect world and is bound to be reflected in polity. The point is that any system to be called democracy must have a basic framework of constitution which can not be altered. Indian supreme court had upheld this in Keshavanand Bharati's case. However, Indira who was crazy for personal power, in order to retain the power distorted the constitution and removed fundamental rights and since then India has been on downhill journey. As a proud Canadian you should be aware about Charter of rights in Canada.
Instead of posing me a question, I wish you had dwelled upon basic requirements of democracy and examined the same in Indian context. Can you tell me which country deprives its citizen a right to higher learning by providing 70% resevation to a certain section of society ? Which true democracy denies a fundamnetal right to peaceful possession of property or in which democracy civil or criminal suits in court are decided after 40 years? Rule of law, equality for everyone and quick dipension of justice are a few fundamental principles. I acn write an essay on flaws of Indian democracy but I have no wish, time or energy. Perhaps by your standard , Cuba will rank as democracy as "progress there is ongoing!"
I agree with nightmare even though I hate to. How can 2 political parties with opposing agenda and principles get voted and then align with one another after election and form a govt. What about all the million and one voters who voted for the parties for their principles and policies. Also how can two parties oppose each other at state level and align with the other at national level. How can a party propose a Nuclear deal with the US when in power and oppose it when out of power. May be I'm immature about democracy but this to me looks like free for all, take people for a ride democracy without any accountability.
It is definetely good to see outsiders praise the Indian system especially when it is hard to find a noteworthy praise, but we Indians should call a spade a spade amongst ourselves and get down to reality and doing it without having to wash our dirty linen in front of the world.
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Originally posted by Nightmare
However, Indira who was crazy for personal power, in order to retain the power distorted the constitution and removed fundamental rights and since then India has been on downhill journey. As a proud Canadian you should be aware about Charter of rights in Canada.
Instead of posing me a question, I wish you had dwelled upon basic requirements of democracy and examined the same in Indian context. Can you tell me which country deprives its citizen a right to higher learning by providing 70% resevation to a certain section of society ? Which true democracy denies a fundamnetal right to peaceful possession of property or in which democracy civil or criminal suits in court are decided after 40 years? Rule of law, equality for everyone and quick dipension of justice are a few fundamental principles. I acn write an essay on flaws of Indian democracy but I have no wish, time or energy. Perhaps by your standard , Cuba will rank as democracy as "progress there is ongoing!"
Nightmare, did you really say what I understood (Indira removed Fundamental rights).... I am sure fundamental rights are still there intact in our constitution... yes it was Canada's Charter of rights only where some of our Fundamental rights were lifted from when we wrote our constitution... Indira did impose emergency for a short period of time, unless you are referring to that....
What I feel is that laws, rules, regulations are all there in our legal system.. so may of them... (as good as it can get), it is the implementation part where we lack... big time....
As for flawless democracy.... correct, no democracy is flawless...however that doesnot stop us from talking about degree of perfection (or imperfection), which is what we are doing here... and I agree, though we very proudly inherited all those democratic principles from british legal system in 1947 and all those principles are nicely enshrined in our legal books, reality suggests indian democracy is far from perfection and we have to go a long way before we can call it a democracry...
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Vik
