Inter racial Marraiges
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Quote:
Orginally posted by Anti_DESI
Again, you misunderstand my point. I'm referring to those, for the 12th time, who TAKE ISSUE with people dating out of their race or community. I give no distinction to the race of the people I date. It makes no difference to me - and THAT is the Canadian and American way of life. My point is that if you choose who you associate with or date based simply on their race, class or ethnic originals - by my North American standards you ARE a racist, whether you admit it or not, whether it is common in the East Indian community or not - and you SHOULD leave. Don't bring your backwards racism to Canada - point and form. If you don't fit the above listed mold, then as others have said - this doesn't apply to you and you have nothing to worry about.
I think you are misunderstanding me now :-) I am not saying that ethnocentricity is a good thing - I am just saying that ethnocentricity is not an Indian-trait. People all over the world are ethnocentric - it's natural for human beings to mistrust and fear things that they are not used to - and this includes race-specific behavioral patterns.
My point is that you (or anyone else) don't have a right to tell someone to leave Canada because he or she is ethnocentric. Most people don't come to Canada because they are attracted to a Canadian life-style - they come here because they are paid better and living conditions are better!
A vast number of Americans actually think that homosexuality is wrong - so are you going to tell them all to get out of the USA? Hey, the Pope thinks it's wrong too - so are you going to tell all Catholics to leave the USA?
Also, while I don't really care what you or anyone else think of my attitudes, I'd like to say that I am all for inter-racial relationships - not only do they help bring the gap down between multiple cultures, but offspring born from multi-racial parents have a huge genetic advantage because of the improved gene pool.
I am really new to Canada and have no clue how long I'll be here but if I do live here long and I do have a kid, I'd secretly hope that he/she marries a non-Indian (though if he/she by chance marries an Indian, that'd be quite okay too).
Posts: 39
Location: New York, but I'm Canadi
Posted on: 04-10-05 13:29:13
Location: New York, but I'm Canadi
Posted on: 04-10-05 13:29:13
Quote:
Orginally posted by curious-desi
Anti-Desi your thinking is the way it is now because as you said your family has been here for so many generations. Give fresh of the boats including myself sometime and their way of thinking will maybe change. Its nobodys fault in the way an individual is thinking. Lots of factors affect it.
And you cannot call yourself superior to all desi's just because you date people from other races or your way of thinking is different than fresh of the boats. Mindyou you should not forget that it's the comparision that you do of yourself with peasant like thinking people that makes you think you are superior. If there were no peasant like thinking people in this world, who would you compare yourself to call yourself superior? Nobody is superior just because of the way he/she thinks.
Unfortunately, by western standards - there is social and cultural superiority - it starts with social and cultural education. I never said I was superior because I date woman of other races. You need to work on your reading skills and stop twisting my words around. I'm sorry you feel as though it's your right to be a bigot. In North America, as a society, we work to get past ethnic-bias. As a country - we don't need or want imported racism or ethnic bias from overseas anymore then we want home grown bigotry. People like YOU (or the ones you are defending) create bigotry against Indians when you insist on defending your right to closed minded, peasant like attitudes towards racial and ethnic integration. The fact I was born in Canada has nothing to do with this. The fact I am open minded, have friends of all races and nationalities, speak many languages, i.e. Spanish and French - and have a level of diversity that many have fought for me to have the right to acquire makes me superior to you socially and culturally. The fact I consider all Canadians "my people" equally, as opposed to "desis" makes us different. Welcome to the real world. I don't care if you disagree with me. You need to understand North America before you can profess to speak for it. And yes, I consider an African American, or a Korean Canadian "my people" before I take preference over someone from India. As far as I am concerned, until you learn to understand that philosophy and mind set - the North American mind-set and culture - you have no right to call yourself Canadian, American or North American.
Posts: 39
Location: New York, but I'm Canadi
Posted on: 04-10-05 13:34:48
Location: New York, but I'm Canadi
Posted on: 04-10-05 13:34:48
Quote:
Orginally posted by jake3d
Quote:
Orginally posted by Anti_DESI
I think it's time more of people studied the Indo-Canadian experience - the struggles Indians went through - everything they fought for - I think that is the least "desis" owe this country and those who made it possible for you to come here.
actually one of my friends wrote a book about the Sikhs on the komagatamaru(sp?)...see the culture section of this site.
Back to the topic...
I do agree to misuse of the word 'Gora' and I keep away from those terms @ home and otherwise. Same with skin color.
Racism and ethnocentricism is not unique to new immigrants. I have seen bigotry in a cpl of majority Canadian(by birth) colleagues of mine. These are the guys that that vote 'liberal' and say all the things one expects 'Canadians' to say. However they too exhibit some bigotry(as you mentioned ...learned I am presuming). So its not possible to monitor everybody's mindset at all times.
One also has to understand that India itself is a country that is multi-cultural. As dimple illustrated, the desi kingdom itself is multifragmented and ethnocentric. People have age old prejudices based on religion, caste, etc.
e.g:In my family caste was NEVER mentioned. However in my late teens, one of my cousins from a rural part of india mentioned my caste( big news to me) in disapproving comments about a friend of mine. This when we count ourselves as ones who turned to non-caste based religion(Christianity) before most of the western civilisation, almost 2000 yrs ago.
What you see on this board are newer immigrants who bring a lot of that mindset(in other ways). They will hopefully able to change their thinking. They have to be challenged(as you are doing now). Or they have to convince us about the validity of their thinking by challenging us.One does not become 'Canadian' just by stepping on the shores of Canada. One of our viewpoints is going to get stronger by this exchange. It has always been this way, hasnt it?
However, they also have to be here to be able to do that.
Nice Post..They do have to be here to do that. And it's our duty to question their reasons for staying if they don't want to give up their old country prejudices. I think it's imperative that these points be made. With immigration on the rise - it becomes easier for them to avoid integration - and that alone separates them from mainstream North American society - which in turns revamps racism generations before them fought to queue.
Do you have a reference to the book? (I couldn't find the section you referred to on the site). I would love to see it. Sounds quite interesting.
Quote:
Orginally posted by jake3d
actually one of my friends wrote a book about the Sikhs on the komagatamaru(sp?)...see the culture section of this site.
Back to the topic...
I do agree to misuse of the word 'Gora' and I keep away from those terms @ home and otherwise. Same with skin color.
Racism and ethnocentricism is not unique to new immigrants. I have seen bigotry in a cpl of majority Canadian(by birth) colleagues of mine. These are the guys that that vote 'liberal' and say all the things one expects 'Canadians' to say. However they too exhibit some bigotry(as you mentioned ...learned I am presuming). So its not possible to monitor everybody's mindset at all times.
One also has to understand that India itself is a country that is multi-cultural. As dimple illustrated, the desi kingdom itself is multifragmented and ethnocentric. People have age old prejudices based on religion, caste, etc.
e.g:In my family caste was NEVER mentioned. However in my late teens, one of my cousins from a rural part of india mentioned my caste( big news to me) in disapproving comments about a friend of mine. This when we count ourselves as ones who turned to non-caste based religion(Christianity) before most of the western civilisation, almost 2000 yrs ago.
What you see on this board are newer immigrants who bring a lot of that mindset(in other ways). They will hopefully able to change their thinking. They have to be challenged(as you are doing now). Or they have to convince us about the validity of their thinking by challenging us.One does not become 'Canadian' just by stepping on the shores of Canada. One of our viewpoints is going to get stronger by this exchange. It has always been this way, hasnt it?
However, they also have to be here to be able to do that
Posts: 39
Location: New York, but I'm Canadi
Posted on: 04-10-05 13:49:57
Location: New York, but I'm Canadi
Posted on: 04-10-05 13:49:57
Quote:
Orginally posted by Fonzie
Quote:
Orginally posted by Anti_DESI
Again, you misunderstand my point. I'm referring to those, for the 12th time, who TAKE ISSUE with people dating out of their race or community. I give no distinction to the race of the people I date. It makes no difference to me - and THAT is the Canadian and American way of life. My point is that if you choose who you associate with or date based simply on their race, class or ethnic originals - by my North American standards you ARE a racist, whether you admit it or not, whether it is common in the East Indian community or not - and you SHOULD leave. Don't bring your backwards racism to Canada - point and form. If you don't fit the above listed mold, then as others have said - this doesn't apply to you and you have nothing to worry about.
I think you are misunderstanding me now :-) I am not saying that ethnocentricity is a good thing - I am just saying that ethnocentricity is not an Indian-trait. People all over the world are ethnocentric - it's natural for human beings to mistrust and fear things that they are not used to - and this includes race-specific behavioral patterns.
My point is that you (or anyone else) don't have a right to tell someone to leave Canada because he or she is ethnocentric. Most people don't come to Canada because they are attracted to a Canadian life-style - they come here because they are paid better and living conditions are better!
A vast number of Americans actually think that homosexuality is wrong - so are you going to tell them all to get out of the USA? Hey, the Pope thinks it's wrong too - so are you going to tell all Catholics to leave the USA?
Also, while I don't really care what you or anyone else think of my attitudes, I'd like to say that I am all for inter-racial relationships - not only do they help bring the gap down between multiple cultures, but offspring born from multi-racial parents have a huge genetic advantage because of the improved gene pool.
I am really new to Canada and have no clue how long I'll be here but if I do live here long and I do have a kid, I'd secretly hope that he/she marries a non-Indian (though if he/she by chance marries an Indian, that'd be quite okay too).
So you are saying because we have homegrown issues with racism or homophobia here - we should, by default, be accepting of people immigrating here with racist or bias attitudes, and categorize it as your right? Umm, tell that to the mainstream public and you'll get the same reaction I am giving you. Perhaps you need to learn a little more about your newly adopted country.
We have our issues here in North America - however, they are OUR issues. We don't need or want someone's imported prejudices or biases. Some redneck who refers to Indians as towel heads, pakies, or sand n**ers is an issue, it's a home grown issue we are fighting and winning the fight over. They are our problem. Fighting bigotry from new immigrants is not our problem, nor does anyone here want to make it our problem - so yes, the mainstream feeling is that we'd rather you not come here strictly for money if you hold disdain for our culture and way of life. Members of my own family have been at the forefront of the Canadian civil rights movement. I myself before the age of 12 attended more protests and civil rights rallies then most of you will attend in a life-time due to how political radical members of my own family were - and yes, that also includes anti-racism marches and memorial protests at the water-front sites of tragedies like the komagatamaru.
Don't patronize me about your right come here for money, and disdain for our culture, country and way of life - and don't patronize me about bigotry being age old - therefore, as a society we should put up with it from new immigrants.
I will correct myself when I said most people dont date outside of their race and not because they cant. At any given time they cant even if they want to.
Here is a breakdown of of popoulation in Canada by Race/Ethnicity.
(Source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ca.html#People )
British Isles origin 28%
French origin 23%,
Other European 15%,
Amerindian 2%,
Other, mostly Asian, African, Arab 6%,
Mixed background 26%
Thats 66% whites (caucasian) and 34% non-whites.
Do the math if one person from each group were to date from the other group.
That would leave 32% of caucasians out in the cold. So they have to date within their group or GET IN LINE.
Assuming people of date-able age roughly correspond to the overall %.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
First of all speaking many languages has nothing to do with open mindedness. And as far as for speaking for North America you SUGGEST to undErstand North America first, you need to do the same for speaking for/against desis. As far as I am personally concerned I do believe that one has to integrate fully in the society to be part of it. I also have friends of different races and nationalities. You didnt get my point. I believe that if a person is thinking different than me that doesnt make me a superior person. By the way just for your information I do speak more than 4 languages but still I believe that doesnt make me superior to a person speaking less than four languages. I also believe in diversity but still don't look down on people or use words like "fresh of the boat" or "peasant like thinking people" who dont believe in diversity.And you have mentioned that you would prefer to call African-American or Korean-Canadian"My people" before you take a preference over someone from India shows how diverse you are in your thinking. IDONT CARE EITHER IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME.
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