Inter racial Marraiges
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Location: Western Hemisphere
Posted on: 04-10-05 12:15:07
Anti Desi....I said this in the other thread...and I'll probably get flamed...but here it is..
I am becoming your fan. Your comments sound harsh, but nothing could be farther than the truth.
I am married to an Indian that I met at the University while we were doing our MS degrees. But, God forbid, we both are from different castes. You should have seen the fiasco thrown by our relatives. My own cousin's wife had a disparaging comment to make and they have been living in the USA for the past 25 years. So much for overcoming trivial issues and treating everybody as equal and with respect
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Dimple2001
I have to disagree with anti-desi on one point: you say that Canada is a melting pot. It isn't. Canada adheres to the mosaic philosophy, meaning that people are welcome to keep their culture when they arrive, because their experience and traditions will lend themselves to the richness and diversity of Canada. They don't need to completely lose their culture, but have the flexibility and the interest to maintain both. If anything, first generation kids can find their identities by taking the best of both worlds, as cyberdesi pointed out.
For people who have utter disdain for other cultures (north american culture, east asian or otherwise), why would they come to a country that prides itself on diversity and the acceptance of different cultures? If they're not willing to accept that their kids might immerse themselves in the dominant culture? They're in the wrong place. I'm not saying to expatriate them, but their bigotry certainly won't be acceptable to the vast majority of people.
PS I'll leave this on a light note. This was a joke that someone sent me. I thought it was hilarious and somewhat relevant to the topic of integration:
"Two families move from Pakistan to Canada. When they arrive, the fathers make each other a bet--in a year's time, whichever family has become more Canadian will win.
A year later when they meet again, the first guy says, "My son's playing hockey, I had Tim Horton's for breakfast and I'm on my way to pick up a two-four for tonight. How about you, eh?"
The second guy says, "F*** you, Pakkie." "
Quote:
Orginally posted by brat
"Two families move from Pakistan to Canada. When they arrive, the fathers make each other a bet--in a year's time, whichever family has become more Canadian will win.
A year later when they meet again, the first guy says, "My son's playing hockey, I had Tim Horton's for breakfast and I'm on my way to pick up a two-four for tonight. How about you, eh?"
The second guy says, "F*** you, Pakkie." "
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Location: New York, but I'm Canadi
Posted on: 04-10-05 12:37:19
Quote:
Orginally posted by brat
I have to disagree with anti-desi on one point: you say that Canada is a melting pot. It isn't. Canada adheres to the mosaic philosophy, meaning that people are welcome to keep their culture when they arrive, because their experience and traditions will lend themselves to the richness and diversity of Canada. They don't need to completely lose their culture, but have the flexibility and the interest to maintain both. If anything, first generation kids can find their identities by taking the best of both worlds, as cyberdesi pointed out.
For people who have utter disdain for other cultures (north american culture, east asian or otherwise), why would they come to a country that prides itself on diversity and the acceptance of different cultures? If they're not willing to accept that their kids might immerse themselves in the dominant culture? They're in the wrong place. I'm not saying to expatriate them, but their bigotry certainly won't be acceptable to the vast majority of people.
PS I'll leave this on a light note. This was a joke that someone sent me. I thought it was hilarious and somewhat relevant to the topic of integration:
"Two families move from Pakistan to Canada. When they arrive, the fathers make each other a bet--in a year's time, whichever family has become more Canadian will win.
A year later when they meet again, the first guy says, "My son's playing hockey, I had Tim Horton's for breakfast and I'm on my way to pick up a two-four for tonight. How about you, eh?"
The second guy says, "F*** you, Pakkie." "
LMAO! I think you told me that joke a while ago. Terrible but hilarious. Sadly, there is some truth to it. I watched a movie called "American desi" not to long ago. The main character was raised by 1st generation immigrant parents - he was raised with a certain culture - but he was ashamed of that culture and bent over backwards to put it down. I think that is the opposite extreme - and I think that his attitude is also wrong.
As for the one point you disagree with me on - I referred to Canada and the US on that point and made a generalized reference to multiculturalism and the melting pot (at least I meant to). Canada adheres to one philosophy, the United States adheres to another - in the long run - both countries want the same result. I think you disagree with the wording, not the point - or perhaps I should have been more clear.
My issue doesn't come from people being proud of their heritage or maintaining an ethnic identity - my issue comes from people using that identity to exclude other Canadians or assuming they have the right under multiculturalism to not integrate with mainstream society. I think, wording aside, we both agree on the same general concept.
As for dimple's comments. Thanks for the kind words. I've also noticed negative attitudes and complexes referring to a now illegal caste system in India - and also misguided, unfounded "caste pride", i.e. People on this very site who advertise themselves by caste. i.e. Jatt Desi, etc. I also know that this is yet another common issue seen in the Indian Community aboard. I'm glad you and your wife ignored your families, followed your hearts and refused to allow their ignorance and bias poison your relationship because they thought it appropriate to bring caste, a system not even legal in India, into question here in North America.
While some of what I say comes across as being harsh - the Indian community also needs a wake-up call and a good hard kick in the ass. A person is what they make themselves, not what they were born into. Most of these negative attitudes and ethnic based biases come from people who think they have something to prove - people from lower social backgrounds who believe acting like A**holes will somehow redeem them socially.
If any of you believe in karma - then you no doubt believe that what goes around comes around, two fold.
Anti-Desi your thinking is the way it is now because as you said your family has been here for so many generations. Give fresh of the boats including myself sometime and their way of thinking will maybe change. Its nobodys fault in the way an individual is thinking. Lots of factors affect it.
And you cannot call yourself superior to all desi's just because you date people from other races or your way of thinking is different than fresh of the boats. Mindyou you should not forget that it's the comparision that you do of yourself with peasant like thinking people that makes you think you are superior. If there were no peasant like thinking people in this world, who would you compare yourself to call yourself superior? Nobody is superior just because of the way he/she thinks.
Brats' joke says it all LMAO 
Quote from Brat:
"Two families move from Pakistan to Canada. When they arrive, the fathers make each other a bet--in a year's time, whichever family has become more Canadian will win.
A year later when they meet again, the first guy says, "My son's playing hockey, I had Tim Horton's for breakfast and I'm on my way to pick up a two-four for tonight. How about you, eh?"
The second guy says, "F*** you, Pakkie." "
Quote:
Orginally posted by Anti_DESI
I think it's time more of people studied the Indo-Canadian experience - the struggles Indians went through - everything they fought for - I think that is the least "desis" owe this country and those who made it possible for you to come here.
actually one of my friends wrote a book about the Sikhs on the komagatamaru(sp?)...see the culture section of this site.
Back to the topic...
I do agree to misuse of the word 'Gora' and I keep away from those terms @ home and otherwise. Same with skin color.
Racism and ethnocentricism is not unique to new immigrants. I have seen bigotry in a cpl of majority Canadian(by birth) colleagues of mine. These are the guys that that vote 'liberal' and say all the things one expects 'Canadians' to say. However they too exhibit some bigotry(as you mentioned ...learned I am presuming). So its not possible to monitor everybody's mindset at all times.
One also has to understand that India itself is a country that is multi-cultural. As dimple illustrated, the desi kingdom itself is multifragmented and ethnocentric. People have age old prejudices based on religion, caste, etc.
e.g:In my family caste was NEVER mentioned. However in my late teens, one of my cousins from a rural part of india mentioned my caste( big news to me) in disapproving comments about a friend of mine. This when we count ourselves as ones who turned to non-caste based religion(Christianity) before most of the western civilisation, almost 2000 yrs ago.
What you see on this board are newer immigrants who bring a lot of that mindset(in other ways). They will hopefully able to change their thinking. They have to be challenged(as you are doing now). Or they have to convince us about the validity of their thinking by challenging us.One does not become 'Canadian' just by stepping on the shores of Canada. One of our viewpoints is going to get stronger by this exchange. It has always been this way, hasnt it?
However, they also have to be here to be able to do that
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