Wonder why they hate us? Take a look.
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Posted on: 07-02-07 16:49:09
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Tinfoil anyone?
Man is that your own site? Who do you get your feeds from...nutcases?
Good to know you are in esteemed company.
.. That was funny..
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I think I'm going to put up a site like that too.
So the neocons are orchestrating the shia sunni divide and the suicide bombings to they could be kicked out of power in the congress and most possibly in the next elections? You are getting more ludicrous by the day.
....actually they were counting on the electorate not to notice..
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The neo-con problem was that they were stupid and arrogant enough to think Iraqis are going to forget age old divides and flock under democracy, once an opressive(if effective) dictator was removed. Not the tin-foil madness you and your fellow conspiracy theorists state.
Actually the neo-con problem was..... When plan A, to hoodwink the ME populace to hide the invasion as "liberation" and western corporate looting of resources as "democracy" dint work they put the bets on opening up old wounds of Shia & Sunni to cause unrest while they try to coerce the puppet govt to sell out on Iraq's resources thinking the iraqi populace wont notice either.
warning: below are links to nutcase conspiracy theories
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16214.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16190.htm
...but you did answer your own confusion. "Stupid and arrogant"...not exactly a good trait for a soldier of Democracy is it? Exactly my intention in this thread. Just like in the video clip I posted on top of this thread to prove the same.
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Listen before you continue on your stupidity...please read ATLEAST your OWN LINKS.
Besides being dated(written in april 2006) they say(amongst other inventive and unsubstantiable ramblings):
"The strategy for inciting civil war has never changed. If the United States really wanted to establish security in Iraq they would have increased the number of troops on the ground. Instead, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld has convinced the White House that we are fighting “a new kind of war” that requires massive counterinsurgency operations papered over by daily infusions of propaganda."
Little did the conspiracy theorists know that in 2007 Bush IS asking for more troops to be sent there....and Rumsfeld has been pushed out of office. So tell your friends to write a new premise for that. How all this was another neo-con game for Rumsfeld and his master Bush to fool the iraqi populace into joining scientology and worship Tom Cruise the neo-con sith lord.
Until that time please do not post dated links that you have not taken the trouble to read yourself and thus nix your own arguments. You are destroying any shred of credibility you may have remaining. Enlightening indeed . Sure does explain your 'plan'. BTW: your 'plan' would have no chance at working if the conspiracy theory in your link was true. Why did you put it forth?...further proof that you just came upon that link and in your eagerness to defend your ignorance...then posted the same without reading it. Tsk,tsk...Hemzer, just let it go...you are digging your hole deeper with every post on this thread.
So.......where you get your information from are all facts and where I get it from are from nutcase conspiracy theorists, is it? Glad you are realising the power of independent reporting that you had to call them "nutcases" to ward them off.
I was hoping you would have an answer to my questions in the previous post instead of ranting how "stupid" and "ignorant" I am?
Please, is there any way you can start a new thread where we can debate my "stupidity"? I promise to reply.
Hijacking this thread to discuss neo-con stupidity was not the intention when I started this one. This one was to show the arrogance and disrespect of our forces or our mercenaries on ME people that gives them strong valid "reasons to Hate us"
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Originally posted by hemzer
....actually they were counting on the electorate not to notice..
Lol...keep talking. How were the electorate going to miss it? Its all over BBC, CNN etc....ooops those are not credible information sources and you dont read them. Only the 'information clearing house' is the correct source
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...but you did answer your own confusion. \\\"Stupid and arrogant\\\"...not exactly a good trait for a soldier of Democracy is it? Exactly my intention in this thread. Just like in the video clip I posted on top of this thread to prove the same.
Its a war zone you dont drive like you are in Canada. There are no 'soldiers of democracy' in Iraq. Soldiers fight to win wars and secure cities...else send in the red cross.
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I was hoping you would have an answer to my questions in the previous post instead of ranting how \\\"stupid\\\" and \\\"ignorant\\\" I am?
Please, is there any way you can start a new thread where we can debate my \\\"stupidity\\\"? I promise to reply.
I've been engaging you in a clear debate while you are only showing a marked ignorance about whatever you are debating about. Your stupidity is evident enough. I dont think we need a new thread to prove that.
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Hijacking this thread to discuss neo-con stupidity was not the intention when I started this one. This one was to show the arrogance and disrespect of our forces or our mercenaries on ME people that gives them strong valid \\\"reasons to Hate us\\\".
My point is that with or without the reason...they are NOT hating 'us'
If they were hating 'us' they would have been bombing the green zone instead of incessantly killing civilians in hospitals, market places, schools, universities etc. OOPS a 2006 link said its the US plan
to do that. OOPs the link also said the way to tackle civil war is to send more troops. OOPS bush is sending more troops. But you dont like that either...you want to bring them home.You are just selling propaganda...plain and simple.
BTW before you continue embarassing yourself heres a better 'plan' though I dont think anyone is ready for it.
The current American/Canadian/Western economy is built on cheap oil. The American dream has been built on cheap oil. The highways, suburbs etc has been built on the same. The only way out is to lessen the dependence on a depleting energy resource(60% of which lies in the Middle east). How do we do this?...heres some of the ways:
1)Change the way we live. Live in more local walkable communities. Forget the sprawling suburbs and need for gas.
2)Downsize our homes so heating/cooling is more efficient.
3) Work in these local communities, grow food in these communities etc.
4)Be ready to consume only as much as we need.
The past 70 yrs have been an era built on cheap oil. If we have to continue living and consuming as we do...we HAVE to be able to control the energy resources in places like Iraq. UNLESS we have an alternative energy source(does not look like thats a reality). Hydrogen, Ethanol etc do not cut it.
If we make a change in the way we live...we do not have to control the resources that our homes, cities and lifestyles are currently built around.
Let the Chinese and Russians control the ME instead and fight amongst themselves for it. Right now the west is in the way(dueto the fact that we have the upper hand). We have to be ready to let that go. Its probably their turn to enjoy the 'American dream'. Let their soldiers pay the price in alien countries.
Ofcourse, the downside is that the standard of living will NOT be what we are currently used to. The economy in North America will have to be more local than global. Maybe ingenuity will triumph and we WILL come up with an alternative/non depletable/abundant enercy source.
A nice documentary about how the west is built on cheap energy is 'the end of suburbia' http://www.endofsuburbia.com/
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Heres the promos of the documentary I was talking about.,,this is especially for those who are averse to reading 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHr8OzaloLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTIMsbR1-s8
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and heres a lecture on how oil and our lifestyle is so linked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1-BNC7vXP4
THE lifesyle is NOT sustainable without controlling the oil. Even controlling it(e.g Iraq/Afghanistan-by stabilising the region and ensuring uninterupted supply lines) is only a stop gap situation, though it is in our short-term self interest..ie. so we can continue living and consuming like we currently do.
However, we HAVE to change....sooner or later. Now, Hemzer, though you may think I am agreeing with you....notice its not from an ignorant and moralistic point of view....its based on facts.
I.e: it all goes back to what I mentioned on another thread...if we HAVE to enjoy the current standards of living, we HAVE to control the ME. Out of all the options the military option is the most efficient(note: I did not say 'morally correct') to keep the supply lines open as they are now. Any other option will interrupt the supply lines. Even this(controlling the ME) will work only for the short term....until the oil is depleted.
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Lol...keep talking. How were the electorate going to miss it? Its all over BBC, CNN etc....
What was all over the BBC & CNN...??? oh you mean the fact that "the neocons are indeed orchestrating the shia sunni violence".
I thought you implied that it was not the case. So which one is it? Did they or dint they?
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ooops
those are not credible information sources and you dont read them. Only the 'information clearing
house' is the correct source
credible or not, is for the reader decide. Its not upto you or me.
Dont know about you but I personally, prefer to read notes from people who are on the field and people who are actually experiencing the pain we have delt them. Do you think you could get them a chance to be seen on CNN?
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Its a war zone you dont drive like you are in Canada.
......a war zone....why is it so? Did we have anything to do with it?
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There are no 'soldiers of democracy' in Iraq. Soldiers fight to win wars and secure cities...else send in the red cross.
What are those soldiers fighting for, again?
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I've been engaging you in a clear debate while you are only showing a marked ignorance about whatever you are debating about. Your stupidity is evident enough.
irate, evasive and offtopic is more the words I would use to describe it as.
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Your stupidity is evident enough. I dont think we need a new thread to prove that.
The request for a new thread was made for reasons of basic net etiquette.
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My point is that with or without the reason...they are NOT hating 'us'
I challenge you to try that kind of driving while you are representing your country in an occupied land and find out what the victim's opinion was. Who knows you may be right................. you could bump a carfull of Sunnis off the road with your western army truck and he would get out and swear at the Shia's and might even seek one out and kill him right there for vengence.
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You are just selling propaganda...plain and simple.
...propoganda ????
what better example can there be than this
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=15857
and below is from your first post in this thread
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.........People will rather believe that Ahmadenejab wants nuclear weapons for peaceful reasons
than anything else....
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If they were hating 'us' they would have been bombing the green zone instead of incessantly killing civilians in hospitals, market places, schools, universities etc.
..but what if it were made to look like the Shia mosque bombing was a Sunni plot...masterminded by us of course?
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I.e: it all goes back to what I mentioned on another thread...if we HAVE to enjoy the current standards of living, we HAVE to control the ME. Out of all the options the military option is the most efficient(note: I did not say 'morally correct')
..and they are not supposed to "hate us" for this?
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Heres the promos of the documentary I was talking about.,,this is especially for those who are
averse to reading
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHr8OzaloLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTIMsbR1-s8
and heres a lecture on how oil and our lifestyle is so linked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1-BNC7vXP4
THE lifesyle is NOT sustainable without controlling the oil. Even controlling it(e.g
Iraq/Afghanistan-by stabilising the region) is only a stop gap situation, though it is in our
short-term self interest.
However, we HAVE to change....sooner or later.
Thanks, Ill check it out. Although I understand your point here, we need the oil.
My question is why do we have to steal it and in the process humiliate the people we steal it from? This give valid causes for them "to hate us". At this rate they dont even need propoganda to engineer hate towards "us".
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Originally posted by hemzer
What was all over the BBC & CNN...??? oh you mean the fact that \"the neocons are indeed orchestrating the shia sunni violence\".
I thought you implied that it was not the case. So which one is it? Did they or dint they?
No the fact that their strategy for containing the violence is NOT working. Thats all over CNN and BBC. It was evident right from the start that any failure in Iraq would not go down well with the electorate. Noone in their right minds would think that splittingup Iraq would be a sensible strategy if the republicans had to control congress or win the next presidential election.
'Orchestrating' yada yada is your ignorant wet dream not mine.
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credible or not, is for the reader decide. Its not upto you or me.
Hey Art bell is credible to some...be my guest
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......a war zone....why is it so? Did we have anything to do with it?
its done for OIL. It would have been over if the Americans were brutal enough. It would have been an efficient (not 'moral') way to control the oil. Now nothing can change that....oh i forgot....you have a 'plan'
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What are those soldiers fighting for, again?
I've mentioned oil,self-interest, economy. Democracy, in the middle east will make control over the oil easier for the west. Are you dense?
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irate, evasive and offtopic is more the words I would use to describe it as.
Your conspiracy theories and sheer ignorance is bound to make me irate. Its like talking to a 15 yr old instead of a 40 yr old. People who have not taken the trouble of educating themselves should not be engaging in debates and coming up with 'plans' based solely on ignorance.
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The request for a new thread was made for reasons of basic net etiquette.
Be my guest. Like I said...its been proven so I dont see a need.
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I challenge you to try that kind of driving while you are representing your country in an occupied land and find out what the victim's opinion was. Who knows you may be right................. you could bump a carfull of Sunnis off the road with your western army truck and he would get out and swear at the Shia's and might even seek one out and kill him right there for vengence.
, You are full of theories. Maybe thats why Sadr is angry.. a humvee bumped into his car.Quote:
...propoganda ????
what better example can there be than this
http://www.canadiandesi.ca/read.php?TID=15857
and below is from your first post in this thread
blah blah
Ahmadenajabby's crap is as much propaganda as the neocons. He is using religion to seek control over the middle east. He is using the situation in Iraq and lebanon to push Irans self interest and influence over the oil and the region. The neocons are using him. Its world politics. That being said He IS racist. His supremacist islamic ideology IS intolerant and racist. When racists talk about wiping out countries...you take note. If/When Pat Robertson heads the armed forces of the US and talks about wiping out Iran...we similarly have to take note.
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..but what if it were made to look like the Shia mosque bombing was a Sunni plot...masterminded by us of course?
. You got that from the 2006 link. Which also mentioned that the solution to the civil war is to send more troops....which is what Bush is doing.Now which is it? Is bush orchestrating or trying to prevent civil war?
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.and they are not supposed to \"hate us\" for this?
well they are not Hating us right now. They are hating each other. I'm sure you'll reffer back to mike whitneys 2006 link about the wet dream...please refer to the previous para and my question therin.
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Thanks, Ill check it out. Although I understand your point here, we need the oil.
If you understand this simple fact...you will know that all this has nothing to do with morals. No country in the world frames their foreign policy on 'morals'. We dont just need the OIL, but if we have to keep our lifestyle and economies the way they are, an interruption or increase in cost of OIL WILL have to be guarded against. When the predominant thought is to satisfy your and my consumption there is NO other way. In an area filled with monarchs and dictators and tribal sectarian divisions....the MOST efficient way to secure the supply is by being militarily agressive. If the west does not do this to impose its influence, the secondary powers like China and Russia WILL step in. Right now the secondary powers are playing mostly in the shadows because they know they do not have the military might to oppose the west in that arena.
Arguing that we are 'morally' wrong means zilch when the fighting is not about morals. I dont think neither the west or the arabs or the chinese or russians are better than anyone else OR worse. ALL of them are looking out for their best interest at the cost of someone else. Be it irans meddling in lebanon/iraq, russia/china/west medlling in the middle east. etc. Arguing the other sides case IS propoganda.
I am saying all along that its for self interest.YOU are saying its because the other side is morally right...THAT is propaganda! Especially when everyones hand is dirty.
All blame either 'WMD' or 'Jews' or 'ISlam' or 'Crusades'...making it some 'moral' issue.
Ignorant masses get on the band wagon and make it about who is more 'moral' than someone else...which is a neverending debate. This may suit the war-mongers on all sides allright.
In other words..."its the economy, stupid!". Iran, Russia, China, Syria the west etc are all looking out for their own economies(at the expense of others). I am on the side of the west. You are not. You seem to be keen only on focussing and demonizing the west.Why? What compells you to take that stance? Dont talk about morals again. The other side is not any morally 'righter' be it Iran,Russia, China,Saudi,Syria etc. To say otherwise is propaganda(well in your case ignorance too).
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