This is a serious and mature topic and no Muslim/ Islam bashing but we need to create a forum for potential/future Muslim immigrants to ponder before they down load the immigration application from cic.gc.ca.

I've realized that CD is the first place most Canadian Immigrants(potential inclusive) go to before they plan their future here.

Kudos to CD for that. At the very same time this site has NOT achieved its real potential unlike other websites in the same genre due to the priorities of the owners of this website lies elsewhere !.

I came to this topic based on several interaction I have with my neighbours, co-workers who are predominantly white.

White people do not say the truth when they talk to you, until they get to know you well over a few years. If this is the common perception then it will get compounded over the next decades and our children will suffer.

This does concern a minuscule sie of Muslim immigrant body only and not the majority of them.

The reason being the first generation is escaping a set of hardship/ problems and finding a better quality of life & peace in Canada. We owe it to Canada for that.

But the problem happens with our kids who grow up here. My observation is that(I stand to be corrected )the Hindus and others have lesser of this problem. The same is also to be said about Muslims coming from India. This is compounded in Indian Muslim who live in ME for a long time and arrive here.

The problem is the confused status of the Muslim kids in Canada. The parents are toiling hard, trying to achieve their dreams, while providing a good life for their children like in any family.

But when it comes to Muslim children they tend to interact with other Muslim children of origins like Pakistan, ME or other countries where they have no exposure to secularism or multiculturalism.

I'm finding this also in some Sikh families also. The parents send their kids to religious places where the religious leaders instill very high religious preaching the kids turn out to more radical than the parents.

Now the problem arises the kids get confused in the sense that they do not know whether their allegiance to their religion/faith or to the country.

Some of them get radicalized and end up giving up the very life their parents wanted to give them and some of them are getting killed in foreign land. It pains me to see many Canadian Muslim mothers crying with their pictures of their kids dying in ISIS country.now they blame their country for Not preventing their kids going toa foreign land.

Are the parents responsible for holding their kids back or the country to monitor every child ?.

The kids are sent to religious places for being a good person but ends being a radicalized person who is willing to lay down their life for a purpose which directly contrasts to very country which gave them their good life.

There is a famous song called "Enge Area Ulle Varadhe" in a dhanush tamil movie. Which means I'm minding my business and it's is none of your business. This is very valid that as far as I do not meddle with your business why do you bother about my business. When we have a country basedon certain culture, laws and founding principle and if your value system directly contradicts the very base me as also a fellow citizen be concerned?.

That is the reason of this post.

Where does the loyalty of the grown kid lie with the country, parents or the society we live in which indirectly. Is the country ?.

This confusion is manifesting very much now due to the ISIS rampage.

A practical case study now in GTA happening now as we read this many Muslims( no bar on countries) are protesting about GAZA, while they are opposed by pro Israeli group. I understand that Jewish people are protesting for the safety of their country of origin. Why is an Indian Muslim or a Pakistani Muslim going there and protesting for the Palestinian kids.

Ok I assume your answer will be fellow children are being killed brutally.

Then why are you Not protesting for the kids being butchered by ISIS for being non Muslims ?.

Did you see the dichotomy of thought!.

The official Canadian government stand( put forward by a democratically elected) is that go being Pro- Israel.

The question now is are identifying yourself as a Muslim or as Canadian ?.

Now when white people in Canada who are your future neighbors, employers, customers and counterpart keep reading, following the media they have a doubt about about your loyalty.

Even though they will not say it in your face you will be a suspect until they get to know you we'll. it is not your fault but what others in your community do.

I want to point based on the experience I have there is stereotyping involved. It starts out as every brown person is a suspect and percolates down. I've heard from many coworkers that Indians and Hindus are easy adapters to the system and are sometime more materialistic than Caucasian.

This dichotomy question rose from Hasni's thread on discrimination and further compounded by Dr.Subramaniyan Swamy speech in Mumbai on 4 August 2014 supporting Isreal. You could see the speech vide link in another thread.

When you then start isolating yourself in certain areas based on communities then you become the majority there then you start discriminating on others based on your culture, religion or way of life.

Case and point Brampton.

I want a detailed a discussion from Muslims and Sikhs on this very website on how they are adjusting themselves to this dichotomy.

Let the Civilized discussions begin !

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Sunny Leone a true Canadian DESI now back in India !.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/isis-uses-internet-to-reach-indians-youths-to-wage-jihad/1/376788.html

ISIS uses internet to reach Indian youths to wage jihad
Rezaul Hasan Laskar | Mail Today | New Delhi, August 13, 2014 | UPDATED 10:10 IST



The video titled 'Al-Ghuraba-The Chosen Few of Different Lands' reveals the account of Abu Muslim, a jihadi from Canada. The video is subtitled in Tamil (right, from top to bottom), Urdu and Hindi languages.It's jihad gone desi down the digital way. Against the backdrop of reports that young men from Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu are fighting with the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, a hitherto unheard of militant organisation has posted ISIS videos with Hindi, Tamil and Urdu subtitles and jihadi literature in Hindi on the Net.

ISIS stands for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, which became ISIL with the L standing for the Levant, and finally just Islamic State. It is a jihadi group that has established its rule by force of arms in a vast area of northern Iraq as well in parts of Syria. Such is the extreme behaviour of this group that even Osama bin Laden is reported to have disowned it at one time. ISIS has now cast its web across India.

Al Isabah's Facebook page presents Urdu, Hindi and Tamil subtitled video of Abu Muslim.One video with Hindi, Tamil and Urdu subtitles, posted on jihadi forums and YouTube, features a Canadian jihadi identified as Abu Muslim, who is shown firing a rocket-propelled grenade and participating in combat before he is killed. The video shows the Canadian asking other Muslims to join the jihad.

Another video with Hindi subtitles features ISIS spokesman Shaikh Adnani. Yet another video features the first Friday sermon delivered by ISIS chief Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi with flawless Tamil subtitles.

Al Isabah Media Production, which claims on its Twitter account to be the media unit of "Ansar ut Tawheed Fi Bilad Al Hind" (Supporters of Monotheism in the Land of India), says it has posted the videos. Both Al Isabah's Twitter account and its Facebook page have links to the videos and other jihadi propaganda, including a link to a book in Hindi titled "Jihad Me Shirkat Ke 44 Tarike (44 ways to participate in jihad)". The book, according to posts on jihadi forums, was purportedly written by the since 'terminated' US citizen-turned jihad preacher Anwar Awlaki and translated by "Abu Haider al Hindi".

The Facebook page also has several links leading to jihadi literature in Urdu, including a booklet on "Jihad: The forgotten obligation" attributed to a writer named "Ubaidha al Hindi".

Al Isabah Media on its Twitter account posted a link to a Hindi book on jihad.Intelligence operatives said Al Isabah's presence on Twitter and Facebook played up efforts to link the jihad to "Hind", a nomenclature often used by militant groups to refer to India. "The names Ubaidha al Hindi and Abu Haider al Hindi are obviously pseudonyms but they are trying to project some sort of link to India," one source said. "Nevertheless, the videos and other materials cannot be taken lightly in view of the reports of Muslim youths from Thane and Chennai going off to fight with ISIS," the source added.

Al Isabah Media has provided links to nine videos, the first of which was posted a fortnight ago and the most recent one-featuring the Canadian fighter Abu Muslim- about six days ago. ISIS chief Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has referred to India in video and audio messages released in the past. In an audio message released during Ramzan, al-Baghdadi claimed Indians were part of the ranks of his group and were fighting alongside Chinese, American, French and German nationals.

Al-Baghdadi has also claimed India is one of the countries where the rights of Muslims have been "forcibly seized". He has also criticised the West for not recognising "the killing of Muslims in Burma" and the "dismembering and disembowelling of the Muslims in the Philippines, Indonesia, and Kashmir" as acts of terrorism.

Animesh Roul, executive director of research at New Delhi-based Society for the Study of Peace and Conflict, has described Ansar-ut Tawheed Fi Bilad Al Hind, or AuT, as a hitherto unknown group whose messages highlight alleged "government atrocities against Muslims in India" and encourages Indian Muslims to join the Afghan or Syrian jihads and to carry out attacks inside India.

Roul, in a recent article for The Jamestown Foundation's Terrorism Monitor, wrote that AuT has issued at least four videotapes since October 2013, including one on May 17 that called for attacks against Indian targets worldwide. This 10-minute video featured AuT leader Maulana Abdur Rahman al-Hindi urging jihadi leaders like Taliban chief Mullah Omar, Al Qaeda's Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, Nasir Abd al-Wuhayshi of al-Qaeda in Arabian Peninsula, and al-Shabaab's Abdi Godane to attack Indian government interests and economic centres in India and elsewhere as a means of "protecting the Muslims of India", Roul wrote.

Earlier this year, Al Qaeda ideologue Asim Umar issued a video in Urdu that targeted Muslims in Jammu and Kashmir and other parts of India.

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Sunny Leone a true Canadian DESI now back in India !.

It is only matter of time that Indian passport holders and Canadians of Indian origin will get the "special" treatment given at the North American border like the ones faced by Pakistani/ Afghanistani origin passport holders.

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Sunny Leone a true Canadian DESI now back in India !.

VM: This is a valid and relevant post reflecting the crisis around the globe. My thoughts are as follows.

1) I believe that educated people of Islamic faith are fully aware of the ongoing violence in the globe and also how their religion is playing a primary role in driving these events. But, they are helpless in not being able to turn the tap off.

2) I know many fence-sitters who wish to adopt free thinking philosophies like Humanism or Atheism but they are scared of the consequences from their own family members and their community. (Of course, the Madrassa types will anyway blame all the violence on CIA, Mossad conspiracy theories as always).

3) We will see more and more 2nd generation Canadian born jihadists going abroad to fight and die. This is a direct consequence of brainwashing children starting with the weekend religious classes.

4) I am seeing a trend where non-Muslim parents openly forbade their children from playing/interacting with children of Islamic faith. They are scared of their children imbibing the violent ideals.

Every immigrant face some kind of confusion, muslims have additional one of keeping the faith intact, eating halal, escaping official parties, picnics and how to forbade kids from joining 'openness' of society.

Motivation of escaping third world country and settling abroad in first world, with wide acceptance of new passport is such a huge motivation, such that people suppress their religious and cultural beliefs and are ready to take pain of migration.
Sikhs and Hindus are observed to be more flexible and adoptive than muslims.

Most impacted lot are kids. I have seen muslim kids living double lives to keep their parents happy at home and other kids at school/college , even at jobs, Some are friends whom I personally interviewed on the religion topic (sitting in the bar drinking alcohol together, lol) , They say this is the best option they have. Keep everybody happy. Same phenomenon where ever I went, be it Canada, US , UK and some part of Europe. Parents feel happy when they are conned. lol. How stupid is that ! and what made them so stupid ?

Another story , one of my friend who told me all this who also is an office colleague on a good job and is a muslim, 'was' in love with a sikh girl , both asked their parents , parents refused the alliance on religion basis and asked them to part. They agreed not to marry but that day onwards, in rebellion rage started having sex and kept meeting that way till they found their arranged spouses. Parents were happy, so were kids, everybody won. but Religions lost.
Stupid stories but lot of hidden messages ! :-)

Quote:

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Originally posted by san-hugo

Parents feel happy when they are conned. lol. How stupid is that ! and what made them so stupid ?

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Dimple2001

This 13 year old boy from Turkey has his future carefully planned out unlike our 13 year old's who spend all their time getting education. An eye opening read from BBC.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29921816