Idea of this post originated while listening to a discussion on 640AM about girls in Montreal school, asking for separate swimming lessons, as it conflicted with their religious values.

As we discuss about assimilating into Canadian culture, how far would you go to shed your "Indian values" and adopting "Canadian values"? Where would you draw a line? In your personal life and in parenting - with your kids?

To answer this question - we need to define what is a Canadian? What are Canadian values? What are Indian values? And somehow, while discussing this topic, there are 100% chances that cultural and religious values overlap.

Regarding my personal life, I can see a change in my thinking (a more liberal stance). Yet there are some things that I cannot change. At a more superficial level - I cannot start eating meat, I cannot change my preference in music, I cannot change (or do not want to) change my accent/pronunciation, I cannot change someof my inherent Indian/Hindu values & thinking.

But this applies to myself. If I had a kid, I wonder upto what extent I would "force" my "values" on him, and upto what extent I would allow him to adopt the "Canadian" values. So what are "Canadian" values again. (I hope it does not turn again to "teenage sex/drugs/alcohol". Those are not Canadian or western values). Candaian values are certainly not Christian values. Good habits/respect/law abiding are human values, not restricted to Indian or Canadian

At same time, as I try to assimilate myself into mainstream culture, I need to change my way of thinking, some of my thoughts and preferences. The change is not overnight but is gradual.

So there lies a dichotomy in the thoughts. Where do you draw a line to retain your Indianness and still be a Canadian? Or in that case, do you even need to retain your "Indianness"?

When I see/read the media or see segregation of cultures here, I feel Canadian government is too liberal in its concept of multiculturalism. Strictly IMHO, Canadian Law/constitution/method of living is always above your personal religious/cultural values/thinking. IMHO, every immigrant should accept that fact before immigrating here. If one thinks that his/her religious/cultural values are superior than that of Canada, what is the point of immigrating here?


Meghal

Meghal,

As a second generation person born and raised here who has struggled with this my entire life I have a question for you:

Can you define your view of what a "indianness " is? Culture values etc?

Another question is: To what extent does a part of Indian culture restrict your child's growth, success in their career/marriage etc?

Also, if you dont eat meat, how would you react if your child chose to?

I think its important to understand why one needs to identify oneself as Indian. Is it motivated by fear? Generally a person from India will be a different visible race then a mainstream Canadian ie Caucasian. Even if you or your child decided to be totally 'westernized' and totally break ties with any rituals or traditions Indian the first thing that another person will see is your visible identity.

So really is it possible to lose that identity? Is Indianness what you look like, what you practice orr your frame of reference?

Can one argue you are 'indiannized' if you sum up all costs of things in rupees ??

these are my thoughts and ramblings

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~ Morning rain

I would not like to think about "Indianness" or "Canadianness".
I would like to be a Human being. A human being is sympathetic, fair, secular, compassionate,
This feeling of being a human being encompasses all.
for eg. i would allow my child to be a vegetarian or a non veg, allow him to drop out from school or study to be a doctor, allow him to learn ice hockey or not learn any sport.
I would eduate my child to respect elders, give alms to beggers, take care of injured pets.
I would disipline my child on dating, drugs, smoking ,alchohol etc..
It does not matter if this conflicts with Indian culture or Canadian culture. It is the trait of being a Human being.
Just my view. Not laws set in stone.
TK

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I am a Gents and not a Ladies.

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If one thinks that his/her religious/cultural values are superior than that of Canada, what is the point of immigrating here?
Meghal

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The cowards never started,
The weak died on the way,
Only the strong arrived.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yK1i9cLAMM

Indian culture is all about peace, love, kindness, care, respect, compassion, understanding, honesty, destroying evil so goodness prevails. Indian culture has given birth to 3 religions, women have equal respect like men, women are worshipped for example Lakshmi, Saraswati and Parvathi

Indian culture expects humans to Respect

1. All forms of life on the basis that all life has been created with the same building blocks of matter for example carbon, oxygen, nitrogen and hydrogen.

2. Mother nature because she nourishes and sustains us. Care for maintaining the balance in the ecosystem. Not only are animals worshipped in India but also trees. It’s a custom in Indian tradition to first offer food to God (ensures that food is cooked in a hygienic manner this is somewhat equivalent to the good manufacturing practices which are used in pharmaceutical companies) then to a cow and then dog.

3. Your parents because you owe your existence to them. Remember our origins are very humble we are the product of a sperm and an egg and your mother carries you in her womb and nurses you. I always make it a point to fall at my parent’s feet and seek their blessings at the airport every time I visit India. I do get some stares but don’t care about it.

4. All religions because they are different paths to God. Please do not consider a person belonging to a different religion as an infidel.

Couple of decades earlier some families discouraged women from going abroad to pursue further studies. Also families felt that if the girl had more qualifications than it would be difficult to find an equally or better qualified groom because marrying within the caste was more of a norm.

Also, if you dont eat meat, how would you react if your child chose to?

Eating meat doesn’t have any advantages because protein requirements can be met through other sources. It would be advantageous if parents make their children aware at a young age of the horrors of factory farming and the pain and suffering which animals endure when they are being slaughtered. Since meat is so nicely packed and marketed in North America it is advisable to make children aware of the origin of meat. Also the disadvantages of meat should be explained to them like use of waste animal byproducts to feed animals, the possibility of ingesting harmful antibiotics and toxins, dangers of mad cow, H5N1 virus, foot and mouth disease in sheep’s and goats.

I was a bit surprised in reading in some other post regarding the availability of cheap fish in Chinese stores. Remember these fishes can have toxic mercury chlorides, PCB’s and other poisons. Why would anyone want to poison his or her body with such harmful chemicals?

Nikhil

I have been a bit vague in my original posting. Let me specify some social or political issues where clash of ideas/culture/values may arise when one immigrates to Canada and tries to assimilate into mainstream. I am not saying what is good or bad. I am just highlighting the difference

(1) Family structure - Joint family is an inhernet part of Asian (Indian sub-continent or Chinese) tradition. ALthough there are nuclear family in Indian Metropolis - but that is because of either parents living in another city, or lack of space in parents home. So everybody gets surprised when I say that my I stay with my mother (Or in Canadian style - my mother stays with me). So will the next generation agree to stay in their parents house once they settle down. Will the parents ask their kids to stay with them and take care of them.

Here it is not unusual for parents to move to seniors home when they no longer can take care of themselves. For us, it is quite natural to feel guilty for thinking about sending parents to seniors home

(2) Going by the same token teenagers start working in summer or having part-time jobs when they turn 14-15. As they earn money, I believe they also get the idea of financial independence. So it might not be unusual for them to move out of parents home and stay independently. How many desis can stomach their idea of having their kids move out of the home at very early age?

(3) Age of consent for sex is 16 (Tory government is thinking of passing the bill to raise the age by 18). How many desis can stomach the idea of their teenage kids having sex, or worse, teenage pregnancy?

(4) How comfortable you are with your kids being taught about sex/pregnancy/birth control/homosexuality in school? How comfortable you are with your kids mingling with kids of single parents/same sex couples/different ethnicity?

(5) I am still not comfortable with idea of dating. It is hard for me to digest the fact, that you stay with somebody for a brief (or long) period of time, share intimacy, and still can move out when things do not go along. Even marriage cannot provide you the security in relationship (Same may be true in India, but people normally are not corageous enough to ask for divorce).

(6) Respect for one's ideas, thoughts and freedom - You are free to have thoughts totally different from mainstream, and have the freedom to express themselves in the public. Nobody has the right to invade my freedom or private space. Similarly, you cannot enforce your ideas on your kids.

(7) At workplace - less hierarchy - you can call your superior by his first name. He does not have a separate office, but has a cubicle just like you. The owner of your company shares the same kitchen/coffee/washroom as the person at the bottom rung of ladder. This idea of equality can be hard to digest for somebody who might be at senior position in India and used to the beareaucracy.

(8) This may not be a sharp difference, but Caucasians are said to be less frugal with their money than Asians. It won't hurt them much to blow away their savings or income on items of physical comfort. While in India, as typical middle class has always tried hard to make their ends meet, and hence is a bit stringent when it comes to spend the money. Can you change your money spending habits?

(9) On a political front - it is perfectly normal for Canadian government to send their troops to Afghanistan-Haiti-Sudan-Rwanda for peacekeeping and democracy. I wonder how many of these countries have actually welcomed foreign troops on their soil. I still find it difficult to digest that what happens in another part of world, can be your business, and that you have a right to meddle in other countries affairs.

(10) Social causes - Canadians tend to be more vocal when it comes to social causes such as walks/marathons/fund raising etc. etc. It is interesting to see how media as well as society still holds vigils for Holly Jones case even after two years or recently in the services held for slain Windsor police officer. Whenever anybody is in trouble, the media as well as society will come forward to support that person.

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Originally posted by JRF

Again you also said "Yet there are some things that I cannot change".

Don't you think it is also applicable for others from a different background...

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Yes. Ultimately, it comes to ones comfort level. But I do not think it is proper to go to the extent of changing the law or regulation, just to accommodate ones personal/religious beliefs. Sometimes, I feel people exploit Canada's tolerant multicultural or democratic policy.

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Remember, you've used a word "Superior" in your post.. its really disturbing....

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OK. I change it to "better". But I am still surprised why do you find the word "superior" so disturbing?

I have posted one more posts about where my ideas seem to clash with mainstream Canadian lifestyle. One a very superficial level, what I meant to say - it is difficult to change my habits/routine/tastes. I still have no interest in hockey/baseball/basketball - I still like to watch only cricket/soccer/tennis. Popular mainstream music is still not in line with my taste - i still need an rd burman song to start my day. I still cannot survive on pizza/burgers/coke - I still prefer Indian food anyday.

Hope, I have made myself a bit clear

Meghal