Did God create man or man create God ?
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Posted on: 18-09-15 17:05:45
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Originally posted by Monica.admin
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Fido.
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1. As they say in Puranas and also according to the Hindu mythology; after the soul leaves the body and the latter is all burnt, then how could you be awarded the strictest punishment in 'Narak' or pleasures of 'swarg'?
How is it possible to physically feel the punishment/pain, when you are not in your body at all (already burnt after one dies), and especially when soul doesn't feel anything at all?
2. When one says 'Paap lagega' and something is sin. There are two aspects: Social and Religious. I can understand the social facet and go along with it in its entirety, but what's the purpose of the very religious enigma?
Puranas are not the purest. They were developed much latter to introduce the same concept's present in Upnishad's in a different form. More stories to convey the message. Above points, the concept of Narak, Swarg and Pap-Punya are to streamline the human race who is otherwise not enlighten enough to understand the basic principals of being human. It is like a candy being offered to a Kid if he completes his homework (or a punishment if he doesn't). Psychologically it motivates once to do "Good" things and prohibits doing "Wrong" things. So you are right - there is nothing like Swarg or Nark and Atma doesn't have to suffer!
The same goes for Sins. Otherwise a Murderer and a Judge Giving Capital Punishment both are equal sinner in terms of religion, but we never treat that way!
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A Proud Indian Canadian
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Originally posted by Garvo Gujarati
Things we are seeing are so amazing that without a perfect planner it would be hard to do so. Even to understand GOD particle we needed thousands of top brain in the world, and considering the entire universe that event is very negligible. Though we have succeeded in unfolding many secretes of this universe we are still crawling. And we are just 'discovering' things, we are not 'creating'.
So we assume (at best) that there's a super planner . Why is there no life on Mars or on Moon ? Did the super planner plan only for the Earth ? What happens in case of a nuclear war or in today's ISIL conflict ? Where's the super planner ..... For every one perfection , there are multiple imperfections which should also be attributed to the master planner.
If sea carves a beautiful sharp stone by hitting it every day , should we assume that someone sculpted that stone .... Some things happen by accident , others by co incidence , should we assume that some one made them happen ?
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Originally posted by Garvo Gujarati
The distance between earth and moon is so perfect. Without that perfection life would not have been possible. The earth's rotation, the earth's inclination, human body temperature, heart bits, there are so many amazing things.
Yes and then there are venomous snakes , lions which devour you , sharks which have no predator , snow storms and desert storms and Tsunamis & earth quakes .... These are also greater imperfections which defy the existence of God ... The fact is that there is no Perfect World . Things happen not because some one makes them happen but because some things make them happen.
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Originally posted by Garvo Gujarati
There is a common question on why there is a poverty if there is a god. Think about the world if everyone is happy. Why would one need to work? Why would all of us migrate to Canada? It is our desire to achieve something (with a perception that we don't have everything) that makes us move.
Does it mean that those who are well to do do not work or do not have goals ?? A doctor or an engineer is not poor to make him work and accomplish things ...Poverty and achievement are 2 different things ..... On the contrary poverty may make a person unable to achieve.
Similarly why do people get diseases , cancer and die leaving their loved ones distraught ?? If God wanted everything to be perfect he would have at least saved everyone from basic calamities of life .. Don't you think so ??
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Fido.
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Originally posted by Garvo Gujarati
We say I did this and I did that. Same way we say I woke up. Is it true? When you were slipping your senses were gone. They came back only after you wake up, so saying that I woke up is wrong.
Exactly how I think about God
If things have evolved over centuries and ages (big bang theory) and come into existence when certain factors come into congruence and get destroyed when one of the factor goes out of line , why do we have to feel that the creation & destruction attributed to God.
Lets go a step back .. When man came into being .. we have evidence of ice age , stone age etc.... imagine how his early life would have been like and given the basic animal knowledge and intellect he had , do you think he would have fathomed God ??
God must have come later when men must have thought more and perhaps started attributed unknown happenings like fire , lightning etc to God ...
And then the belief picked on ...... And then different parts of the world have different Gods but one thing is common - he or it is an unknown thing .. at best an assumption , a faith , a support for unknown things .
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Fido.
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Originally posted by Garvo Gujarati
The distance between earth and moon is so perfect. Without that perfection life would not have been possible. The earth's rotation, the earth's inclination, human body temperature, heart bits, there are so many amazing things. It is not possible to list all of them but there is a nice book on this "The universe around us". It has tremendous examples of wonderful things. The "Later Year's of Albert Einstein" is also a worth read.
I am with you here. However, my question is, who created the 'perfection'. May be, something happened a million years ago that formed Earth, Sun, Moon, Galaxy, etc. at a certain distance. As Science gathered momentum, Scientists found out what that distance is and formed their various theories. As they are a definite entities, the distance, measurements were always there and remained a matter of time when it all discovered. The 'perfect' distance is just a notion. How could it be imperfect, on the other hand?
Everything has a cause and effect. Physically, what we see today will change tomorrow due to the various unseen factors. Whether one calls it God or Science is everyone's own prerogative, which again is quite justifiable in accordance to what one believes in.
The question being, who the creator is? It could be God, it could just be a 'bang'.
As much as I don't really believe in the God factor alone, I've had a hard time believing 'Darwin' too, for I am sure there was something else in play that formed us 'human beings' or was it just an accident.
And then if God created the Universe , who created God ?... Another God perhaps 
Happy Weekend guys ... nice thoughts exchange though and hopefully this thread should not go off the rails.
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Fido.
So we are all 'pakaoing' the 'khayali pulao' 
.. who created man and who created god
If we look at the natural progression of things in nature, various living organisms existed, are existing and may come into existence as the global parameters change. We cannot rely on science totally since science can believe and prove only the things it can feel, see, touch or measure. Until the powerful microscopes were discovered, science did not believe there were micro-orgasms with only 1 sense, 2 senses, 3 senses, or 4 senses. Science may still NOT have defined what life is universally due to parameters it cannot measure, see, sense or feel. There are religions that consider Air and Water to have life (similar to trees being considered forms of life) - but science will not accept until it has the ability to measure it using its limited tools.
The only thing that's constant is change - the thing we call universe objectively looking is a collection of masses of indefinite properties which are yet to be gauged/quantified by science. A life in another planet could have different senses, shape etc. We all know animals communicate in their own way which science or humans dont understand - how do know that there are other life forms currently communicating in form that humans don't understand or cant imagine even.
Bottom line - accept the event as it happens, think objectively about the events happening around you, do the things you want to do - that makes you feel good about and stop worrying about facts which you cannot control. All the events that are happening today have a physical cause in the past which will lead to future events - all a chain reaction. The jihadists of today (as viewed by some) are the results of actions of others in the past, are the reasons why future jihadists will be born and the chain is going to continue till the fittest and the strongest one prevails. Today's wars are about killing lives one at a time - future wars may be making living impossible for a million at a time by depriving them of their necessities like fresh air, water or internet - it will keep changing. Adapt, adapt adapt - if you wish to survive.
The perfect nature, beautiful landscape is only 'our' perception as we want to believe. Snow capped mountains and green fields are beautiful because we 'perceive' them that way, our mind is trained to think such images as beautiful. To a desert snake the desert is beautiful and the free flowing river is dangerous. In reality, they are just physical landscapes existing there.
There is god if you wish to pray and make yourself comfortable, if it gives you strength to overcome a set back - it is a motivating thought for you to keep yourself together, to accept events you cannot control. There is no god if you accept the event as it happens at its face value and have the emotional strength to face it and survive through it.
Hiren
P.S. I trust everyone is enjoying this as much as I am.
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