What I'm going to narrate to you happened to me and my family over this weekend.

It is well known in CD that S'ya is quite anti-pessimistic-negative minded towards Canada. Yes you guys are right, the reason I do this is that I want to educate people on realities on ground zero, and not to have mis conceptions about Canada. I'm a fighter, I always stand up for my rights and this is irresepective of where I live. In India once I went alway the upto South Block when a Custom Inspector asked me/my company for Rs.20K as speed money. I went and met the then Mr.M.R.Sivaraman, Finance Secretary for this issue. From the next time onwards Bombay customs treated me and my company very differently.

I want a better Canada for all of us. Whe should get what is advertized in the package. We should not get a different product than advertized. Am I searching for one black stone in a bag of rice and my answer to this YES !. There is a statement in the Law faculty, which says that 100 bad people can go unpunished, but one innocent should not get punished.

Everybody talks about FREE Healthcare in Canada. In a recent post one of my fellow CD's also extolled the virtues of the Free Canadian Healthcare.The following are things I faced just last weekend, and I kept a scrap book and took notes to report to my fellow CD's, and my wife was pissed off as she felt I was spending my time keeping notes rather to tend to my sick child.

My second child who is 5 years old was vomitting since Friday. I gave her Gravol as safety medicine on Friday afternoon and also Kaopectate as prevention for any loose motion. I was feeding her all afternoon with liquids and as prevention was trying to give her liquids(juices/water) and less of solids. She was throwing up after complaining stomach ache and whatever she took in she would throw up in 30 minutes. I thought this was due something she ate the day before. This continued to Friday evening. I tried to get an appointment with my Family Doctor which I got for Saturday afternoon at 2.00PM. My child was again throwing up all Saturday morning, and I went the clinic at 2.00PM, and got to meet the Dr at 3.30PM. The DR used to come out to call on the next patient, she saw my daughter throwing up but did not say anything. At 3.30PM, the DR took her in and asked me what was the case to which I responded about the vomitting, to which she immediately diagonized as Stomach Flue, without even doing the customary hearbeat, tongue check and asked me to continue the Gravol and also me to give her Cerra a electorlyte to contain mineral loss from the body. She adviced us to go to Emergency if it continued in the evening, and get a Needle there. I asked her why she could not give it to which she responded that in Canada we need to observe the patient before trying dramatic approach. I responded that the condition has been the same for the last 30 Hours and why don't you give the needle, and also give some painkillers as the child is crying due to stomach pain. To which she said we do not do it this way in Canada.

I've lived in Chennai, Ahmedabad, Mumbai in several places in India. I have similar situation in India. Everytime the DR either has pulled out the child or person who needs immediate attention and given preferential treatment. I know in Chennai, Dr.S.K.Bhat at Ambattur who was notorious for over medication would put the person on IV and then immediately give a needle to make the patient to be comfortable. The same with Dr.Sarojini Belagaonkar in Borivali(East) or Dr.Kasbekar in Gorai who used to charge Rs.3 and they used to have a single room divided by a white curtain with a steth and a BP apparatus. They would diagonise the problem and ask us to bring the medicine from the pharmacy. I still remember at Manthan Pharmacy in Gorai, Manish Bhai would come down at 1.00AM in the midnite would open the pharmacy and give us the medicine so that DR could inject and make the patient comfortable. In Mumbai if the pharmacy did not have the medicine, they used to contact some agencies near Marine Line which used to stock all types of imported medicine and they were available to you with 3 to 6 hours. I still remember how my pharmacy guy in Bangalore airlifted a special drug made out of whale oil which was supposedly improved the immunity of heart patients after surgery from Bayer-Germany eventhough the drug was not available in India. Once I had my first daughter injure hereself on falling and hitting the tea-poy and Dr.Sharad Patel at Panchawati, Subash Chowk, Mem Nagar, Ahmedabad, who dropped all his work, did not take his lunch rushed to my home and gave immediate anti-tetanus shot, stitched the place up and went back in his scooter. He charged Rs.25 in 1998.

The profession of medicine is the most noble one, once the DR takes the oath he is indebted to his patients and his role is provide immediate relief and later work on long term cure for the patient.


My daughter started vomitting at 7.00PM that evening, we panicked and immediately rushed to Trillium in Queensway and reached at 7.30 PM. We needed to pay a parking fee of $12. Once we reached the hospital we went to the "EMERGENCY" the first nurse, who took the pulse and filled in a whole ream of forms, gave us a small bottle of electrolyte and asked us to feed the child every 15 minutes. We were again called in at 8.00 PM and another set of forms were filled and and by the time my daughter had vomitted twice in the waiting room. We were asked to wait in Pediatric waiting room where there was a nice Aquarium, TV and some nintendo games. What is the use of all these , when my daughter was still crying from stomach pain and also vomitting. We went again the nurse at the registration two and complained that the situation was getting worse and as they had posted a sign, inform us if the situation gets worse, to which she responded that we were short on DR's and we need to wait. I tried to reason out with her, to which she did not care. Later I found her and most of the DR's waiting outside the Tim Hortons and drinking coffee.

This was 9.00PM. There were 4 white families, 2 chinese, 3 Desis and 2 African Canadians. One thing I should appreciate that there was no racial discrimination or preferential treatment but all the families were outside with their children either wailing in pain, throwing up or coughing. There were children from 1 month, 9 month to 6 years. The black child was 9 months old and it was vomitting since the afternoon and it had started vomitting some blood also since coming to the Hospital. The mother was desperate she went several times to the registration and every time she was told that she had to wait and she would be able to meet the DR in another 45 minutes. This continued and some people started leaving for home. The doors used to open every 1 hour and one patient was taken in. While this was on nobody complained and everybody was sitting with their sick child. I thought somebody would rise like Vijayakanth/Chiranjeevi in the movie Ramana/Tagore and call up the chief DR and make things happen. Nothing happened the families were all huddled together, children crying with pain, some children like mine vomitting continuosly. Some families left and when the Nurse used to open the door of the EMERGENCY and call the name and if the family was not there he would mention and mark "NO SHOW". For Gods sake, there were there for 3 hours and you did not call them and now you write them as NO SHOW. We were fed up but I just wanted to complete the excercise and we got our call at 1.00 AM.

I do not understand the concept of EMERGENCY. It is immediate, not 5.30 Hours like what we faced. Do they expect my child to slip into Coma before they will even look at her?.My friend told me that there was a recent report in the paper that 65% of the cases in the Emergency in Ontario do not need to be there. Who decides it is an emergency, is it the patient or the DR. The patient needs immediate attention and not after 5.30 Hrs. My child was already very sick, dehydrated and on the floor of the pediatric waiting room. At 1.00AM she was put on a bed, the nurse called Stones filled another set of forms, and said that whe need to give the same electrolyte continuously till 2.00AM and after which the DR will study here. I thought they will give her an IV and also a needle to relieve her of the pain. At 2.00AM Dr.Singh came in he looked at her studied her bowels and said that she needs to be kept under observation, to which my wife asked him about the stomach pain and asked him whether he could give her a needle to which he responded which I'm reporting in Verbatim,"IN CANADA WE DO NOT give any medication for vomitting or Diahorrea" and he continued to fill more forms. This way the nurse came in met us every 30 minutes, by the time they took a sample of urine and got a urine analysis done. They said it would take 2 to 5 days for this condition to go and they would not give any medication. By this time it was 4.00Am, the child was still under stomach pain, had stopped vomitting as she had nothing inside her to vomitt. They said that she could be taken home and gave us a printed document of how to handle vomitting and filled in more forms/papers.

I had a chance to peek into the Emergency ward and it had more than 60 to 70 patients and there were 2 Doctors and about 4 nurses. I asked the Nurse why things were slow to which he said that they were short of staff. I wanted to tell him that there were 1000's of them driving taxis in Pearson and they could be put to use here. We left the hospital at 4.30 AM, with my child in the same condition she was the day before. There was no diagonsis, no medication done, no reduction in pain but the child totally dehydrated, tired and half sleepy. The nurse himself admitted the child looked sick and very tired. When my wife asked the DR to give some medication preferably by the needle, the DR reacted that you have already told me 200 times before !.

This was my first experience with the Emergency/Free Health Care system in Canada. While I was in the hospital I saw several patients lying there with out any IV, medication BUT under DR observation. After 2 to 3 hours they were carted out. I shared this experience with couple of my friends and they responded that it was nothing new to them and they also had their families go through the same, in one case the DR said they will not be treating the patients and his family had to return back after 3 hour wait. Another friend who had a Desi nurse friend called her up and she reponded that this is the way it works out here and this also happened to her brothers son. In future she remarked that I should talk to a Social Worker who is present in the hospital during week days who would talk to the DR on your behalf !.

WOW !.

After returning home, I spoken to one of my friends whose old mother was visiting from India. She asked to give the child a little Pudhina Hara, apply castor oil in the stomach, in the feet and hands. If required she asked to give some Omam (ajwain) a kind of spice and drink it along with some Chaas. After this the child was feeling better. As I'm writing this the child is better, the vomitting has stopped but still complains about occassional stomach ache.

My heart goes out to Trillium, as Akshay Kumar and many Bollywood stars have donated millions of dollars to this place. My question is for what ?, to set up nintendo games or appointing DR's who would treat patient immediately. If this case in emergency, what is the case for regular patients.

Yes I would pay $1000 per month in USA as insurance if they can treat my crying, sick child under severe pain and alleviate her pain. I do not want people filling forms and putting people under observation. We are making only 40-50K after 100 Hours of work per week by me and wife put together. I might be hardly paying little taxes. Think about you guys who are earning 100K+ here paying Taxes through your nose and if your child is in similar condition. You do not have any alternative !, you should stand in the line with a General Labourer like me. You have no choice, you cannot go from Corporation hospital to Apollo Hospital to Malar Hospital. As somebody remarked I have a whole set people on my street who have very similar life style and I would like to add to it very similar HEALTH CARE !.

The way the OHIP works is that every time you OHIP card is swiped in your family DR's office he or she earns $30 from the Government. If the person takes in 4 patients every hour, the earnings is $120, and look at 60 HR week. The annual earnings of about $300K+ in this situation how do you expect the DR's unions to let others come in and practise !. Which country is more advanced in Health Care - India or Canada ?, In India you have a choice of DR's from Quacks to super specialist. The choice is yours based on your spending power. Do you have a choice here. Does your DR really care for your cure, or you are also a $30 Case to him?. Have any of you pondered on these questions?.

In summary, I want to complete my personal experience with the following words, which my friend responded to me, "I want to make some money and go back to India; if you are sick and old, you will die atleast without pain in India".

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Speech by Thomas Friedman of The New York Times....

"When we were young kids growing up in America, we were told to eat our
vegetables at dinner and not leave them. Mothers said, 'think of the
starving children in India and finish the dinner.' And now I tell my
children: 'Finish your maths homework. Think of the children in India
who would make you starve, if you don't.'"

Your narration of your weekend experience was very moving. I am glad your child is feeling better now.

I have also heard that the concept of 'emergency' is almost an oxy-moron in canadian hospitals. Generally from what I understand, there is a system where patients are seen in a priority order based on how severe or life threatening the injury/illness is.

These are just my thoughts:

1) Patients are kept under observation for a period because doctors dont want to misdiagnose (ie get sued)

2) Social workers role is to assist the family and provide information and resources. They do advocate on behalf of clients however I dont know if they can get you in to see the doctor any quicker.

Im sorry your nurse/doctor showed cultural INsensitivity. They could have taken a moment to discuss what is going on with your child and explain what their process is.

The medical industry is like any other: There is politics involved. I believe doctors and other medical professionals ought to have better bedside manner and put clients as a priority. This is the ethical responsibility of the doctor.

I dont know if the situation is any better in the US. Can anyone else clarify this? In Canada, since health care is governmetn controlled, the bottom line is $$. Beds are being reduced in hospitals, entire hospitals are being closed down, even though statistics show that the population of canada is ageing and without immigration it would be going down.

Last but not least: We use Pudin hara for tummy upsets..even for our dogs. It helps quite a bit.

Question: In India, do doctors give medicine through shots as a treatment for most ailments??

-----------------------------------------------------------------
~ Morning rain

Yes, I will agree that ON healthcare system is in total shambles. This is from my personal experience as well. And we are paying, what, $750 or so in healthcare premium for this garbage

However, here is an interesting perspective on how Emergency admissions seem to work, not just in Canada, but in US. There seems to be a priority on how terrible the patient's situation is perceived to be and then attention is given accordingly.

I had a friend (while studying in the US) who admitted himself in the emergency for suspected bladder stone. The guy was in terrible pain, yet was made to fill out paperwork (I did it for him as he was squirming) and wait a good hour before they stuck some pain killer into him.

So, really, I don't know how things can improve

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dimple2001

Quote:

---

Originally posted by morning_rain

I dont know if the situation is any better in the US. Can anyone else clarify this?

---

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dimple2001

The way shankaracharya has described his personal experience is exactly what you would experience for an emergency situation in the UK too.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Bijou Bazaar
http://bijoubazaar22.googlepages.com

I hope all people who loves canada and its systems are reading this and who can't listen even a word against canada .

This system sucks, Infact every single thing sucks ...In Canada.

I'm feeling so bad right now for whatever happened .

I hope your daughter is fine now and I think most of the people are proud and they make decision to live here becoz of this free ka stupid system.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Truly Indian

I agree that the system is not perfect. I've waited over 11 yrs in the emergency room with my daughter who had the same problem as shankaracharyas. It is painful as a parent to go through it.

On the other hand consider this. A month ago, my sons(4yrs) medical condition got serious. I was asked by the family physician to rush him to the hospital(same as above) and on reaching the emergency room was seen and given treatment within 10 minutes. His condition got more acute and he was given round the clock treatment with a doctor calling every half hr. Nurses kept coming to check his condition every 5 minutes. Blood tests every 20 minuts. He was admitted for the night and given continuous treatment with preparations made to shft him to the ICU. Thankfully for us his condition got better and he was discharged by next evening.

During my stay at the hospital I did see children throwing up in the emergency room. I also saw the treatment my son was getting. I'm thankfull that the staff at the Montreal Children's knew what they were doing. Probably there were some parents who understood that the staff were busy trying to keep someone elses child(in this case mine) alive.
Thats what I will do the next time...till they make much needed improvements to the system.

NOTE: The staff at Montreals Childrens deserve the highest praise for the sensitivity and attitude they do their duties. They OFTEN go above and beyond the call of duty to address the concerns of the parents. For those of you in Montreal...just know that we are lucky to have that hospital. Hope you never need their services though

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Recommended Services- Servicedomino.com
http://www.servicedomino.com