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Orginally posted by jago_desi

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Orginally posted by Loser

In Canada if you eat outide your food or the cook has surely come in contact with beef or pork so there is no pure vegeterianism if you had meals cooked outside home.

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That is flexibility of hinduism
I love fries with gravy and recently I got educated that gravy is made out of beef Is that correct??

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Orginally posted by maxim

As we discussed this topic about vegtarianism in this forum, Recetnly, I got thanks and appreciation letter from one of my unknown friend, for all the information which I provided.
I replied her back and asked her, you can also write your own experience about vegetarianism. And she told me, I don't want to participate at all in this discussion, but, I can write my live story and personal experience and you can post it .
...............................
True Story(An Effort to save a Goat from slaughtering)
Site: (Hoshiar Pur, Punjab), India In the Viallage…..One afternoon

We were coming from the school…on the way….

Shivani: “saying to her girl friend” Look at that man how he is pushing and hitting …. that goat… O my God, look ….how bad he is.. Hitting that badly. “Surprised with sigh”

Mansi: Because, she is not walking,

Shivani: But, there must be a way.

Mansi: he is using the way, his way is also not working in this regard, normally, this is the only way that works, but it works for those, who buy
goats for milk,. I have seen goat walking behind the green leaves branch… look.. he is showing that green leaves branch, so goat can follow
him, but, that branch is not working, because, goat knows what is going to happen …….

Shivani: What goat knows and what can happen?

Mansi: She knows, this man is going to kill her.

Shivani: Why he would kill her?

Mansi: because, Today, is Diwali. He bought it and going to kill her, then chop her, and then, sell the meat.

Shivani: surprised! “I remembered recent argument with the Muslim neighbor, I was saying to her , there must be a meat tree, but, we don’t have meat tree in our village, she was telling me, no, it comes from animals, someone has to kill animal. I said, no one can kill animal, because no one is that stupid. And she laughed and laughed on all my answers, and said, I wish if rest of the world just like you, the root cause of the misery is killing in the world and if there is no killing , I would never mind to live here in this world for ever and ever” All conversation scanned through my mind.

Mansi: And you know all animals have senses, only they can’t speak. She is crying, this is her cry sound…that’s why she is not walking.

Shivani: Isn’t it bad, Goat seems like very nice, so cute innocent face, milking goat, looks like pregnant too, I’m just guessing because, her abdomen is so big…

Mansi: Yes, I know this goat, she is not pregnant, she is healthy, she just, delivered two babies last week, you know the other day, you loved those baby
goats, those were her babies.

Shivani: Were babies, what do you mean by were…are they died?

Mansi: Died? O’god….this is the only answer I didn’t want to answer you, today, I have to tell….not died……Digested.

Shivani: What do you mean why digested? Your puzzles….I don’t understand.

Mansi: Forget it,…. .. it mean somebody ate them….. gone…understand….. don’t ask me any more….And let’s go home. I am hungry.

Shivani: Is that right? “ again, remembering neighbor lady she said one day you will know, where meat come from” and now he sold beautiful milking goat, and this man bought….. both wrong, aren’t they?

Mansi: I know….. now you see,….. they have to go there(pointed the place), it is not far, but, how hard for the man to bring goat to that place, because goat knows.

Shivani: look at him, how exhausted, angered, terrible looking man. Come on let’s go and help goat, we can save her. We won’t let her die like this.

Mansi: Are you serious…..what a stupid and nonsense, idea… of saving a goat………I’m sorry to speak like this, I know your feelings….but, learn
to live in this world.

Shivani: I know, but can’t you see that what I am seeing now, how desperately she needs help, and we are the only one around here, who else will help her.

Mansi: We are not the only one, look that side, ….there are people….and they are Hindu…..and they are very strict….they don’t eat meat…

Shivani: I think they are busy working; they are not looking at this side.

Mansi: Its not true, they are ignoring, pretending to busy, they don’t bother, this road is busy road, stay here for a while, you will see more people coming and going.. Who bothers?

Shivani: What I can’t ignore just like this. I heard about meat, but, I never knew this is how people get meat, let us go to help her.

Mansi: Help……no way it can’t work. I am one hundred percent sure you want to bet. There is no such way left in this world to help animal.

Shivani: This is our responsibility to try, and may be that man will leave her. We should request him. You never no, I want to try…..

Mansi: “Walking toward him” I don’t want to try, I know this man he comes every year on diwali and Eid. Muslim and Sikh buy meat from him.
Even Diwali is not Muslim’s festival even, then, they all will cook meat, they all need excuses to eat. Some Sikh don’t eat….. And here we are, you
talk to him….now.

Shivani: Please, you talk to him; you know I never talked to a big man. You are talkative and expert enough.

Mansi: Hey, you know what you saying, what do you mean why this expert, how come you can say to me……fighting….

Shivani: I am sorry, sorry, and sorry, this is not the time to fight, we can fight later for this matter, please, remember, we are here to help.

Mansi: Talk to him, you are the one who wants to help, and now why you don’t talk, You see, it is very easy to say, now where is your voice, you
closed mouth, open your mouth.

Shivani: (couldn’t say anything to him)

Man: hey, girls, I know you want to say something to me I can see that.

Mansi; This my friend wants to know what you going to do with goat., okay
Shivani, now go ahead…talk to him,…. I started this much for you.

Man: I bought it and you all know what I’m going to do, get out of here, don’t disturb me, I’m watching you girls from long time.

Mansi: did you hear what he is saying, anything else you want to try ……, I am going home, and please let’s go home.

Shivani: No, I won’t go, I didn’t even make a request to him yet.

Mansi: But, he knows what we want to say. Now, Listen to me carefully, this is not the only goat that going to be killed today, through out the world

(I mean world where ever) in every village, in every city, men are going to slaughter goats, cows, hens, pigs, all kind of other animals which we don’t
even know and you can do nothing, nothing and nothing. Suppose, he listen you, still does this make any sense, what about other slaughters???

Shivani: I know, but, this just came in my way. How I can ignore, and leave….if I can’t save one goat, which came in my way, what else, I can do in this world? “in my mind I was praying to God, O’ god, this my first time, seeing this scene, please change his mind, and save this goat”.

“ man was exhausted and sweating, by pushing, hitting, and finely, he got succeed to tied up her four legs to four pillars, and tied up all over (her upper body) and yelled on us get out of here”.

Mansi : We are not standing on your property………we won’t leave…..it is our choice…..(big argument), what you can do us.

Man: Don’t you know, what I am doing, you are not supposed to be here, don’t you have fear of your parents, they must be waiting for you and you
are here, disturbing me.

Mansi: “ whispering to me,” so, what you think now…we can’t even go now, because, we have challenged him……

Shivani: please you can leave me alone…if you want to.., I want to say him, don’t kill. (took few steps toward to the man and goat.) Please, don’t

kill her.

Man: so, you want to tell me, I am doing sin. Am I right ?

Shivani: Yes,

Man: yelling…….. you know your age, you know my age, you think I don’t know anything, it is not your problem, now leave me alone, and get out
of here.

Mansi: So, can we leave now….. there is no hope…. how many times, I’ve told you that.

Shivani: not yet, he didn’t kill her yet. “I was praying to God, O’ God please help, change his mind, save the goat”

Man: why don’t you leave me alone, you are distracting me, can’t you understand this much. I know you both understand this much.

Shivani: we will leave, when you will kill her…. We won’t disturb you; look how far we are standing?

Man: please leave, when I will be killing, there will be blood all over and you can get stains as well, streaks of blood…….. which direction it will
go, I can’t tell, please go now.

Shivani: Its okay, I’ll wash my clothes.

Man: Stain won’t come off.

Shivani: Even then, its okay, looking at her suit, its not that good.

Man: It mean you want to see actual killing process?

Shivani: yes.

Man: Okay, I let you see, but, you have to listen me?

Shivani: okay, we will.

Man: stay behind me, that far, and now listen….don’t come very close to me, ….and don’t move…stay at one spot….if you will move slightly, I am gone know, ……. until I kill.

“Now, he put his instrument on the neck of the goat, recite few verses in his mind, and he killed it with one stroke with very sharp equipment. Head was on the ground. Even on the ground, the separated head of the goat was screaming with pains. whole body part was shaking with pains so badly. Off head on the ground screamed for few seconds and then slowly, slowly stopped screaming and gently eyes closed. And rest of the body was still shaking back and forth. And man was waiting when it will stop so he can start his job. It was obvious to know it’s the spirit which doesn’t want to depart.”

Both leaves…..

Mansi: you see, I told you the result in the beginning, and now you should look your face in the mirror.

Shivani: “didn’t answer, walked to home….”

Mansi: now tell me your feelings. Hey Shivani, please talk, I am worried about you…..do you need water…..come to that well, drink some water,

you don’t know it is very important to talk, and come back into normal face, ……..you are as sad as some one close to you died……. is that goat was

your aunt?

Shivani: “speechless ….”

Mansi: Is she was your…..mom ,…. Sister….?…..You stupid, idiot ………….. ……get mad on me….at least say something back to me.

Shivani: “still speechless”.

Mansi: “reached to the well, there was no water in the water tank”, O god no water, what a terrible day, this happened first time, otherwise there is always
water here. Nobody around us who can help. Seems like god is testing me, how good friend I am? ….

“Mansi really had hard time to get the water out of the well” now you have to drink water with my hands, by the time I reach to you, half of the water spills.

Shivani; “drank water, directly from Mansi’s hands.”

Mansi: now speak. Are you okay?

Shivani; “just nodded her head in yes, but, speechless.”

Mansi: I know you are okay because you drank water, now only one thing left….. to speak…..say something to me….Shivani, Do you know?…. how
much it hurt me?…., believe me or not, I am not worried about goat…not at all….you know what I am more worried about?

Shivani: “I looked at her with surprise as she made me curious to know what?

Mansi: I got hurt because that man broke your heart, isn’t he handsome…….. I know he is older than you……..but, isn’t he handsome.

Shivani: you shut up.

Mansi: since how long I have been trying to speak with you, you didn’t speak, and now you spoke ….only “ handsome word” worked on you.
Anyway….that’s all I wanted, it mean you can speak. O’ thanks God, you can’t believe how much I was worried about you, many people can’t


speak after seeing such scenes, I know two three people …..could not speak somebody told me ….it is true…..at least you spoke. Anyway, thank you….showing me all this as well. I also saw killing first time, one thing I learned today, these Muslim says, we eat halal meat, he didn’t
kill the way he supposed to kill.

Shivani: I heard him reciting something.

Mansi: no, you don’t know, they say they recite verses, and kill slowly, and slowly, and animal doesn’t suffer at all, but a bully-shit, today we have
seen the realty, Let me go home, I don’t care anybody, I am going to have a big fight… today. I am going to Muslim home to tell them off, (using all
the abusive words for them as many as she could)

Shivani: please, don’t go, don’t fight, why to waste your time…what we will get out of it. “and she agreed and promised she won’t go”.

Mansi: I want to tell you , one funny thing about this man….laughing……and laughing…..I really like it the most…….I am the only one who knows his secret…….last year one Sikh man came out of his house to buy meat from him and asked him…..Is it Jhatka? And he said yes, it is. I was little far standing, listening, and turned my face to the other side.. Then, Muslim man asked him, Is it Halal? He said yes, it is. And it was the same meat for both. Don’t you think both stupid?

And he told me, since Sikh started to eat, he has to kill two goats, one for Sikh and one for Muslim, it is because he knows, people inquires about him how many goats he bought. Poor man, he told me it is very hard job.

Sometimes, people don’t buy and he has to throw away, and also, it is only good for three, four hours, after it starts to smell so bad…other bacteria start to develop? Maximum freshness stay only up to eight hours in the refrigerator. People try in freezer, even then it is not good to eat at all. Doesn’t matter what way they try to keep it fresh.

He does experiments in lab …it is a long English word……… he told me but, I don’t know how to say that difficult English.
I am thinking to learn English now.

Shivani: but, how come you know this much about him, and by the way, what you were doing there?

Mansi: come on… Shivani, you are little young to understand it….I am looking for a guy to marry……and when I saw him first time, in our village,
Looked so attractive to me ……how handsome he is…

Shivani: What handsome, he is terrible looking.

Mansi: You don’t know how to look…… and then, I needed to know, if he is married or not, then, you know I needed an excuse to talk to

him….. You can’t believe how long it took me to just talk…to him…...I really worked hard…..first…..I got information by talking to people
….how many people eat meat and how many buy from him, and now, I know the whole village’s life style. I learned so many new recipes, One
another new thing I invented there is one more religion, that’s called Christian , and we don’t have any in our village, now I want to know their life style, what they eat…. and how the Christian man look like……So, this is how, I was there, I was showing him the direction of someone’s home.

Shivani: okay.

Mansi: what okay, you don’t ask questions…I feel like someone should keep asking me and asking me…….

Shivani: but, you don’t give me chance to ask? You keep telling me .. and telling……

Mansi: He took the direction and told me I can go by myself, I said, its okay, I will show the house, otherwise, you can get lost, there are so many turns. He is very disciplined man, He didn’t wanted me to walk
along with him. He didn’t want to talk to me. But, I didn’t listen him, I told him no, no, you don’t know how to get there, and on the way I
talked… to him. “and……. Mansi became so….. sad”

Shivani: then what happened, what’s next?

Mansi: At the end, I figured out he is married.

Shivani: that’s really sad, but, you don’t eat meat, instead of knowing he is Muslim and eats meat, still you tried on him……why?

Mansi: I know, now, many Sikh have started to eat meat, even Hindu in cities have started to eat…. that’s why, no choice, after all I have to marry

that’s for sure, and you can’t understand until you will reach to my age. It is a big problem to find a man, not much choice left because of these many

religions. To whomever I like, either he is Hindu, or Muslim or married, and you know, Sikh not only eat meat, they drink liquor, smoke, and other

drugs as well. This man doesn’t smoke, no liquor, only meat. He is very knowledgeable and nice man. Shivani, I didn’t know…… you are that nice,

I mean I knew you, you are a nice girl, but, at that extent nice…..only I knew today, when you were saving the goat…. you are very sensible, caring,

now tell me one thing, as a Sikh do I should learn how to read Gutaka (small scripture of Sikhism)

Shivani: how I can tell that. There is no Gutaka in my home ….. I never saw it, only heard it.

Mansi: that’s not the answer, I need to know the reality, what is mean by Sikh?

Shivani: believe me I have no idea of such things, one day I asked my grandmother, who we are….she said, we are “desi”, and then, I asked what is“desi”, then she said, it mean we are living here on this earth. What a cool answer she gave. And I am really satisfy with her answer.

Mansi: No, you are not giving my answer, tell me if I won’t read Gutka, it mean I am not Sikh, you think god will punish me for that?

Shivani: how I can answer, I have no knowledge either, I am also inventing it, and one day I went to that old Sikh man and asked to him tell me about Sikh.

He said, Beeba (girl), I can only tell you about my history how I became Sikh, but, I don’t know the history of Sikh…. And he smoked his hookah (large old equipment for smoking )

Once I went to sell my crops to the city, and people were calling me sardarji, sardarji, I got very confused, what is this sardarji mean, first I thought, they are abusing me, but, then, I noticed from their face, they are kind of respecting me, because, it was a new word for me, and then, I asked someone, separately, and someone told me, Sikh who keep beard and hair, and turban, they are called sardarji and now a days people respect them.
Since then, I am a Sikh, I thought not a bad idea to have a this kind of respect for free. Believe me, I was feeling great, and puffed up.
We both laughed….
And he told me, he never ate meat.

Old man: I think you should go to Gurdwara and ask them. I am a mauji banda (blissful person) no worry, no sickness, I enjoy my life, my hookah,

whenever, I will notice, Sikh are losing respect, I would be again whatever I am. And he was enjoying his smoking from Hookah

And then, I went to Gurdwara, asked same questions, person in charge had no answer of any question, and told me sorry, all I know how to read, I don’t know any history, this is my job to take care of this scripture, not for the history. And don’t you ever come back to ask me any question. You made me nervous today, nobody ever asked me this question.

Mansi: surprised to hear all that.

Shivani: Now, it is your decision what you want to do, so far this much I know

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Mansi: that’s not the answer, I need to know the reality, what is mean by Sikh?

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Did it ever occur to anybody that if God didn't want us to each chicken (or meat) he would not have made it so very tasty :-)

Isn't taste relative? There are folks who eat dogs and snakes and crocodiles etc... what does that mean - snake is a tasty food??

As for proteins for Veggies, pulses are full of protein.. Whether as 'Dal' in north India or as content of 'Sambar' in south India, guess it is very much a part of Indian veggie diet content...

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Originally posted by viggy
Isn't taste relative? There are folks who eat dogs and snakes and crocodiles etc... what does that mean - snake is a tasty food??

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"Mah deah, there is much more money to be made in the destruction of civilization than in building it up."

-- Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind"

Hi I am vegetarian . Couple of years back when I was in middle east my wife have some health problem , we checked with doctors but could not find any reason . Her hands were vibrating and head also slightly vibration specially sleeping time . We did all tests but everything was normal . Then finally dr. suggest for complete blood test ... everything was normal except B12 level it was very low . Then dr. asked us what u eat ? He explained that B12 is vital for nervous system and you will not find it from veg food . Any how He suggested us to take Vitamin B12 injections regularly . Since then we are taking it regularly and following veg. food .
Please share your experiences and info .

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DSD