Religious groups plan to picket board over school’s Muslim prayer service
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Posted on: 21-07-11 17:05:19
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BTW I did check Enbridge & IBM links above and they do not have any mention of prayer rooms .....
Let those 40 more coming with correct mentions .
The whole idea is ridiculous not practical as neither of the places - work or school are meant to pray ... there are specific places meant for that ...
Plus who would pay for the absenteeism at work ... pray .. please explain that as well .... 'Oh yeah so there was a major power break down - sorry dude it was my time to pray '
You are slacking ... need to read the links ... no spoonfeeding.
Now for IBM check the question on page 3 ... "Does IBM have a religious observance policy?" ... also check out the locations on page 4.
For Enbridge check bottom of page 2 ..... "Supporting new hirees" .... talks about multi faith room for employees to observe their religious obligation.
Report back about these then we will go from there !!!!
As per law time to pray is to be paid by the employer. You have to understand that this is religious accomodation. You cannot go for prayers into a room and stay there all day !!!!!
If you are handling a major power station and you need to pray, then as part of your accomodation your supervisor will have arrangements in place to take care of things. Now you have to understand this is an accomodation that has a proper procedure in place. It is not like you get up and walk out saying you have to perform your religious duties !!!! You are smart enough you should get it
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Originally posted by puttoo
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For 2 - to pray and perform religious duties when others are playing , is in itself a special thing ...... Why should they be doing special things ... based on a religion ???.
A secular state does not mean a state without religion. It means all religions/non religious beliefs will be respected. Accomodation for religious beliefs is a corner stone of Canadian Constitution.
Infact there is a provision in TDSB guidelines not to have tests and other important events on days which are designated holidays for different religions. So if you are a hindu, you can ask the school not to have a test on Diwali as you will be taking a day off. Now this is an example of religious accomodation and not one of segregation.
This Puttoo guy is muddling the entire issue. We must appreciate his tenacity.
Let us first take TDSB issue.
We all know that TDSB is run by politicians and they would do whatever fetch them the votes. However, that does not make it a "right" policy. Puttoo makes it sound as if it is the final word about the righteousness of the policy.
Coming to definition of word "secular", it is even more pathetic. It is so obvious that this Puttoo guy is colored by Indian definition of "secular" which is exactly opposite of its true meaning. The whole idea of secularism is western and was introduced to ensure separation of Church from the state. i.e. non interference of religion in public affairs. However, such an idea would be beyond Puttoo.
The issue , in my opinion, is much wider. The issue is of politics and demographic changes. Politicians are smart to read the writing on wall. In years to come, Muslim votes are going to decide the fate of the governments. For that they need not have majority. All that they need is decisive power in say 20 constituencies. We all should be aware that Conservative majority is super thin. Just envisage the scenario- 20 constituencies can go the way muslims decide- Under such a scenario, all the political parties would vie for their support. To hell with the rest - because they know that the rest would be divided 50:50. This is exactly situation in India and that is the reason Kangress would be always in power and BJP would not be.
Situation is fast turning like in India in entire Europe and Canada.
We may debate appropriateness of religious instructions in school but politicians have already decided in favor. again, whether we wish or not and whether we become aware or not, our life is largely influenced by political decisions. Judiciary is beholden to politicians for their postings, promotions and assignment to judicial commissions post retirement and hence would not go against politicians.
First round has been won by them and many more would follow.
I hope this is not interpreted as my endorsement. I am absolutely against dividing people and poisoning impressionable kids with the sense of being different from others.
Quote:
Let us first take TDSB issue.
We all know that TDSB is run by politicians and they would do whatever fetch them the votes. However, that does not make it a "right" policy. Puttoo makes it sound as if it is the final word about the righteousness of the policy.
Certainly the final decision is neither mine nor i am promoting it. I am just pointing out that TDSB has apolicy under which this prayer is allowed. Now this policy is based on the Canadian charter of rights and freedom. So the legality of TDSB policy can be challenged in the court of law and the final answer will be from courts.
It seems the people invovled in the protest did not do their homework. If the TDSB "written policy" allows this prayer accomodation, then they should have condemed and raised their voice against the "written policy" of TDSB and challenged it in a court of law.
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Situation is fast turning like in India in entire Europe and Canada.
We may debate appropriateness of religious instructions in school but politicians have already decided in favor. again, whether we wish or not and whether we become aware or not, our life is largely influenced by political decisions. Judiciary is beholden to politicians for their postings, promotions and assignment to judicial commissions post retirement and hence would not go against politicians.
I take that as a compliment. I always say that people should learn about secularism from India. It is ok , like in Europe and Canada, when you have a largely single denomination religious identity to call for secularism. But it get tough, especially for majority community, when you have to make concessions to smaller groups. On that India has certainly done much better than any western nation.
Coming back to your "insecurities", if the politicians and judiciary in this country have compromised, then it is time for you to look for another country !!!!
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Originally posted by puttoo
How is praying by some students going to polarize them? You have catholic schools in Canada, you dont see polarization between them and public school students.
Are you suggesting all religions are equal? Coming to Canada have you forgotten that in the name of religion from across the border:
-openly endorses killing of Hindus
-whose perpetrators are patted on the back by its priests let alone being excommunicated
-whose every family contributes a portion of their monthly income for jehad (through mandatory donations to places of worship and madrassas)
You are suggesting that Hinduism and Christianity are equal to this religion well exemplified by our neighbour.
Do you know anyone personally who has lost a loved one in terrorist attacks or in Kargil? My dad went to two cremations on the same day of his friends after 26/11. Both were dining at the Taj that evening. My wife's close friend is a Kargil widow. She had a 3 year old son then.
Talk to a few families who are still grieving and waiting for justice in the aftermaths of attacks since 1993. Don't spout idealogy when you are far removed from the facts. Wake up and smell the coffee.
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Originally posted by Fido
Allowing religion based praying would set a bad precedent .....Budhists will pray in their own , Muslims in their own , Hindus in their own ---- this would lead to groups being formed on religion basis and lead to communal dis harmony .
Sooner or later another Toronto 18 might come up ....
+1
Puttoo
I dont think u should even spend ur time justifying meaningless statements like providing list of 40 companies
Rogers and Teranet both have prayer rooms, i am sure there are a lot of them in canada that may not advertise but make arrangements for prayer rooms.. thats what is unique about this country where people try to accept u for who u are rather than trying to change u..
Canadians are generally far more tolerant than us immigrants..
This whole thread reeks of intolerance to prove a point
Quote:
Originally posted by puttoo
Quote:
BTW I did check Enbridge & IBM links above and they do not have any mention of prayer rooms .....
Let those 40 more coming with correct mentions .
The whole idea is ridiculous not practical as neither of the places - work or school are meant to pray ... there are specific places meant for that ...
Plus who would pay for the absenteeism at work ... pray .. please explain that as well .... 'Oh yeah so there was a major power break down - sorry dude it was my time to pray '
You are slacking ... need to read the links ... no spoonfeeding.
Now for IBM check the question on page 3 ... "Does IBM have a religious observance policy?" ... also check out the locations on page 4.
For Enbridge check bottom of page 2 ..... "Supporting new hirees" .... talks about multi faith room for employees to observe their religious obligation.
Report back about these then we will go from there !!!!
As per law time to pray is to be paid by the employer. You have to understand that this is religious accomodation. You cannot go for prayers into a room and stay there all day !!!!!
If you are handling a major power station and you need to pray, then as part of your accomodation your supervisor will have arrangements in place to take care of things. Now you have to understand this is an accomodation that has a proper procedure in place. It is not like you get up and walk out saying you have to perform your religious duties !!!! You are smart enough you should get it
Easy, guys, easy. I think if each of us is given a knife, we would gladly use it on each other.
One of the shortcomings of this forum is, we have the same 5 or 6 individuals (including myself) who keep engaging in the same tit-for tat arguments without yielding anything new. We can all agree that religion (especially Islam) is a polarizing area which induces strong feelings from both sides without either budging an inch.
Instead of arguing here for another 15 pages, can we translate this into action?
As a secular person, it is clear to me that all religion must be kept out of schools for the well-being of our children and their future. There is simply no alternative. If we lose now, we are looking at ‘Lal-Masjid’ type situations in 5 years. So, what am I going to do about it?
1) For one, we have finally an awakening of sorts where diverse faith groups are coming together next week for the very first time to picket the TDSB board.
2) Spending 5 hours on this thread everyday does not even come close to the power of just showing up at that event.
3) Typing 50 posts on this forum does not even come close to the results gained in typing a three sentence letter to the TDSB, your local MPP, or even the Parliament hill.
I hope to make it to this event under the banner of Canadian Hindu Advocacy group (http://www.canhindu.com/).
I request all my Christian, Sikh, Atheist, Buddhist and Jewish brothers to find a way to make it to this event at all costs. Inform all your friends, Colleagues and neighbors.
Make it count where you can and when you can.
Yours sincerely,
Rajagopal.
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