Appeal to unite fellow immigrants
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Posted on: 05-10-05 14:05:00
Quote:
Orginally posted by crenshaw
When the Tories say ‘unproductive immigrants’, their first target will probably be parental immigration.
Well, there is always a chance that they are lying.
But for the discussion lets go with what they are saying.
It is no surprise these folks are against immigration.
I dont think that any of their suggestions will be realized even if they come to power. Canada needs people. How many and of what type (qualified/refugee/dependents) is the real question.
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I am quite surprised that an Indian immigrant should be talking about permitting immigration only against work permits!
I am for permitting immigration in the skilled category only against jobs available. Or as close to it as we can get. its essentially a workpermit system with options to apply for PR within the first year and not 4 years.
(4 years is ridiculous).
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If you read what the Tories are talking about, they are suggesting that work permits be issued for a period of 4 years, and a person who stays employed for 4 years gets permanent residence (note: this isn’t citizenship but permanent residence). A work permit holder who is unemployed for more than 3 months would be deported. In a fast changing work environment, this would be akin to a sword of damocles hanging over the potential immigrant’s head. It would also open potential immigrants up to exploitation (ie cheap labour for a work permit sponsor for 4 years – if you complain, you’re out). Many quality immigrants actually avoid the US because of this uncertainty. Without the benefit of the present immigration points system, most of these people would rather bide their time in the US waiting for their green cards.
Its your concerns in a work permit system vs the concerns of those who are already here and cannot get that job. Which one do you think is better?
Allowing them in with no thought as to what they going to be doing or allowing the required number with job offers.
Remember Canada can fulfill the requirement for people from other areas.
Dependents/ refugees. A cut in the skilled category by say 25,000 can be made up in other categories.
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The governing Quebec Liberal Party in Quebec is actually Tory! The Tories are unlikely to get much support in Ontario.
Not in their social policies, right?
In those areas they might well beat NDP hands down.
Their agenda is separatist/nationalist but they are considered left wing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloc_Qu%C3%A9b%C3%A9cois
EDIT: I think we are talking of two different parties.
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Personally, I like the Tories when they talk about lower taxes and smaller government. Chances are that the present dispensation will spend more time pandering to their homophobia rather than any other issues, if elected.
It is a dilemma, because I too would essentially like lower taxes and smaller guvment.
We will know. They hold 98 seats and any gain from there on would put them in a strong position. Politics makes for strange partners.
Perhaps BQ can tie up with them and rein in some of their social agenda.
I mentioned BQ and NDP because they hold 73 seats in the parliament and in the current coalition scenario play an important part.
I can only find very minimal things in english on PQ/BQ websites.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
Its your concerns in a work permit system vs the concerns of those who are already here and cannot get that job. Which one do you think is better?
Allowing them in with no thought as to what they going to be doing or allowing the required number with job offers.
It certainly is a lot better to have the OPTION of coming to Canada and making a life for oneself, rather than being at the mercy of a work permit sponsor. The operative here is OPTION. Immigration does not work out for everyone, those whom it does not work for, have the OPTION of leaving (note I did not say that they MUST leave). The existence of this OPTION is what makes the present immigration system a lot more attractive than one that is based on work permits.
Some of the new proposals look like they will devolve more quotas down to the provincial level, so that the provinces bring in the immigrants that they need most. They also appear to have proposals in place to have licensing / qualification recognition ‘before’ the immigrant arrives in Canada. From personal experience though, there is nothing even today to prevent a potential immigrant from accessing the professional / licensing associations BEFORE they arrive in Canada. In fact immigration services clearly tell potential newcomers that they should do this!
Quote:
Orginally posted by crenshaw
It certainly is a lot better to have the OPTION of coming to Canada and making a life for oneself, rather than being at the mercy of a work permit sponsor.
The power rests with canadians to give that option. Given the chance, the immigrant will come. He will grab at any opportunity. He is not making the decision of what system we should follow or that we should give them an option at all.
Again I wont repeat it, it seems we have to choose the lesser of two evils.
In both the system we are at mercy of some unknown factor.
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The operative here is OPTION. Immigration does not work out for everyone, those whom it does not work for, have the OPTION of leaving
Well, the same can be said of people in the work permit system.
It may not work out for everyone (i.e. not all will be able to hold to the jobs for x number of years and get PR). If and when you lose your job and if you are in an advanced stage in your PR process then you can stay (similar to US GC) and , else legally you will be required to leave. But it does guarantee you have a Job from day 1.
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(note I did not say that they MUST leave).
Noted.
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The existence of this OPTION is what makes the present immigration system a lot more attractive than one that is based on work permits.
No argument here except that a just one good system is better than having two not so good ones.
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Some of the new proposals look like they will devolve more quotas down to the provincial level, so that the provinces bring in the immigrants that they need most.
and that they will be more tradespersons. Good move.
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They also appear to have proposals in place to have licensing / qualification recognition ‘before’ the immigrant arrives in Canada. From personal experience though, there is nothing even today to prevent a potential immigrant from accessing the professional / licensing associations BEFORE they arrive in Canada. In fact immigration services clearly tell potential newcomers that they should do this!
Thats fine. We need to fine tune this. Get the right number of people and the right kind. This is not exactly the gold rush.
if you need 6000 truck drivers then well get em truck drivers. Dont tell the highly skilled person that trucking is not that bad or that he should consider himself lucky for being in Canada and that he is technically being productive and good for the economy regardeless of the work he does.
(This para is based on something I heard in another forum and not on your comments).
If the libs can spend (read sometimes waste) billions on welfare, then surely they can spend more on immigrants cause (outside of the welfare activities of which I am sure many are making use of) and make them more productive.
As far as I see the issues are already being discussed and every now and then articles in national newspapers point this out. This is good because it means That puru and I are not the only ones thinking about it.
It wont come easy though.
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I once made a mistake, but I was wrong about it.
Puru, I am sending you msg with name and phone numbers of person for contacting at CTV. Getting after plenty cajoling as person I am knowing is in charge of entertainment section
Also please not mentioning that u get name from canadiandesi unless mediators tolding it is OK.
BL aur others, can Canadiandesi be mentioned?
I am not seeing kyun nahin, as it is public site, and BL already giving go ahead to place aap ka memorandum in sep link
Puru, please confirm u getting name and nos in msg on thread nahin to phir se sending.
Hoping things turning out right.
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hinglish zindabad
Quote:
Orginally posted by crenshaw
Immigration does not work out for everyone, those whom it does not work for, have the OPTION of leaving (note I did not say that they MUST leave). The existence of this OPTION is what makes the present immigration system a lot more attractive than one that is based on work permits.
And adding:
OPTION for immies to staying here and tolding gorement and Canadian businesses and professional licensing bodies to changing unka ways.
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hinglish zindabad
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
As far as I see the issues are already being discussed and every now and then articles in national newspapers point this out. This is good because it means That puru and I are not the only ones thinking about it.
Aur rajand bhool gaya kya?
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hinglish zindabad
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
The power rests with canadians to give that option.
I wouldn’t say there’s any ‘power’ involved here.
This relationship of immigrants with the economy (and with Canadians in general) is really symbiotic. Both benefit at the end of the day, provided that the immigrant is productive.
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
Given the chance, the immigrant will come. He will grab at any opportunity. He is not making the decision of what system we should follow or that we should give them an option at all.
The type of immigrant that will ‘grab at any opportunity’ to come to Canada is perhaps the type that invariably ends up without a job that matches their skill set.
‘Quality immigrants’ (as opposed to the type that will grab any opportunity) would not be willing to go with the uncertainty that accompanies having their status dependent on an employer (especially when the same option exists in the US).
Perhaps the type that ‘grabs any opportunity’ (to come to Canada) need to take things a little slower and not burn their bridges in their previous workplaces. They can think of permanent residence as a means to finding a job for themselves in Canada (something like a visitors visa to go on a job hunt). If it doesn’t work out, they CAN (not must) go back. Can’t see why the entire system should be modified to cater to the bunch that don’t plan adequately….(I don’t mean to be derogatory to you).
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
Again I wont repeat it, it seems we have to choose the lesser of two evils.
In both the system we are at mercy of some unknown factor.
If that's the way you want to see it.....
However, do keep something else in mind. Many of the larger organizations (who otherwise make great employers) don’t particularly want the hassle of regulatory procedures to hire the person that they want. Such organizations end up recruiting through body-shoppers who end up cornering the work permit applications.
These body-shoppers will invariably exploit the type (of immigrants) that want to ‘grab any opportunity to come to Canada’.
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
if you need 6000 truck drivers then well get em truck drivers. Dont tell the highly skilled person that trucking is not that bad or that he should consider himself lucky for being in Canada and that he is technically being productive and good for the economy regardeless of the work he does.
(This para is based on something I heard in another forum and not on your comments).
That (what you heard on another board) is something wrong to say!
At the same time, many immigrants have themselves to blame for finding themselves in that sort of a situation.
Immigration rules require an immigrant to bring in upwards of $10k to come into Canada. Many, including people who contribute to this board, raise those funds by loans. They land in Canada, get inaccurate advice from other ‘desis’ and assume that the ONLY jobs available are blue collar ones. Rather than spending some time to get to know the market, they get financially desparate (influenced no doubt by the existence of loans), and jump into the first available blue collar job, which doesn’t match their skill set. They contribute to their own discomfiture.
Quote:
Orginally posted by mercury6
If the libs can spend (read sometimes waste) billions on welfare,
Oh well, they’ve had to waste those billions thanks to the prodding of the NDP (and I see from some of your other posts that you are quite amenable to that party!)
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