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Posted on: 20-08-11 00:12:03
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Originally posted by meghal
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Originally posted by febpreet
A very good write-up on how Indian middle class fair in present times. With stagnant growth, over the roof inflation, and low number of jobs available for B.Techs/BEs/MBAs, and other Graduates, they are feeling the heat now, coupled with a little return on their investments.
Thanks.
A proliferation of mediocre to low quality engineering/business schools, who treat education as business rather than focussing on academics can also be blamed in increase in unemployment. And given almost no social security net, I shudder what would happen should India face same recession as US. However, given the "internal demand", I think it won't be as bad as US.
Having been exposed to both Indian and Canadian university, I now realise the stark difference between the quality of education and the infrastructure (or absence of it) between Canadian and Indian universities. A cursory look at the question papers available on Gujarat university's website indicates how easy it is to pass even a master's level exam.
A cursory look at Institute of Chartered Accountants of Canada makes me also shudder. The pass rate is 92%. It means virtually whoever joins program, passes. I agree that "average" university graduate of Canada is certainly more well oriented than India but all is not rosy here. I would ask other CDs to contribute their experience of university graduates. I supervised Canadian graduates as well as Indian graduates. I had two graduates from H.L. College of Ahmedabad working under me and they were much better than Canadian graduates. \i have very steadfastly held a belief that in any country, 10% of the populace is intelligent and the rest does not matter because that 10% elite would be running the businesses. Political administration is another issue. Sheer size of population in India and China give these countries great advantage. It is because of the political administration that India is lagging far behind the Western countries and it is the same political dictatorship in China that gives it an edge over the rest of the world. Further, how "easy" the paper is cannot be and should not be a criteria. It is ultimate number of students which are declared successful that should matter. I have two colleagues who teach in UT and they say that they have to ensure that "Success rate" is around 80%. It should be well known to experienced CDs that Universities here use "Bell Curve" to ensure such a success rate. I would not berate GU. These days quite a few CA program toppers in India are from GU. Equally important is work culture and willingness to work hard. I would agree that average student here is much more equipped than average student in India.
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Originally posted by Nightmare
A cursory look at Institute of Chartered Accountants of Canada makes me also shudder. The pass rate is 92%. It means virtually whoever joins program, passes.
It's actually 70-75%......your point is ?
Pass rate for a Harvard MBA class is probably close to 100%.
The average CA from India is desperate to get a decent job in Canada.
CPAnet forum is full of CAs from India living in the US who are in crappy accounting jobs even after passing the US CPA exam.
A B.Com + M.Com/MBA > B.Com + Indian CA in most states when it comes to meeting the educational requirements for a CPA license.
When will the Indian CA establish a MRA with CICA or AICPA ?
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Originally posted by voltrex
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Originally posted by Nightmare
A cursory look at Institute of Chartered Accountants of Canada makes me also shudder. The pass rate is 92%. It means virtually whoever joins program, passes.
It's actually 70-75%......your point is ?
Pass rate for a Harvard MBA class is probably close to 100%.
The average CA from India is desperate to get a decent job in Canada.
CPAnet forum is full of CAs from India living in the US who are in crappy accounting jobs even after passing the US CPA exam.
A B.Com + M.Com/MBA > B.Com + Indian CA in most states when it comes to meeting the educational requirements for a CPA license.
When will the Indian CA establish a MRA with CICA or AICPA ?
I thought I made my point clear. How easy or difficult a paper is not a criterion. It is passing rate. The question paper may be tough but due to bell curve, if 75% students pass, does it matter?
As regards whether CPA recognizes Indian CA qualification cannot be the criteria for their level of knowledge or intelligence.
If Indian CA or Engineer or any other professional wants to come to USA, that reflects perception of Indian about the economic prospects and that has nothing to do with intelligence.
Only Hitler believed that White Aryan race is supreme. God has bestowed upon the same kind of brainpower to all the communities/ cultures.
If you have different view and if you believe that Americans or Canadians are superior race, you are welcome to have those views.
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Originally posted by Nightmare
I had two graduates from H.L. College of Ahmedabad working under me and they were much better than Canadian graduates. \i have very steadfastly held a belief that in any country, 10% of the populace is intelligent and the rest does not matter because that 10% elite would be running the businesses.
Similarly, in some other place, two graduates from Canadian universities will be better than 10 other graduates from Indian universities.
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I would agree that average student here is much more equipped than average student in India.
I believe that the main purpose of university education is to encourage independent thinking and develop communication skills - avenues where most of the Indian universities fail miserably. The only thing that Indian universities has encouraged is personal coaching classes - so that even an average graduate is even spared of the entire thinking process. University degree is a tool for men to get a job and for a girl to increase her "marketability" in marriage market. I believe India would be better off by adopting Western university system - having polytechnics to teach the basic employment skills and universities for higher education that requires thinking skills.
In Canadian universities, exam dates are not extended by student demands, student do not go on strike and harass professors or damage university property.
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Originally posted by meghal
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Originally posted by Nightmare
I had two graduates from H.L. College of Ahmedabad working under me and they were much better than Canadian graduates. \i have very steadfastly held a belief that in any country, 10% of the populace is intelligent and the rest does not matter because that 10% elite would be running the businesses.
Similarly, in some other place, two graduates from Canadian universities will be better than 10 other graduates from Indian universities.
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I would agree that average student here is much more equipped than average student in India.
I believe that the main purpose of university education is to encourage independent thinking and develop communication skills - avenues where most of the Indian universities fail miserably. The only thing that Indian universities has encouraged is personal coaching classes - so that even an average graduate is even spared of the entire thinking process. University degree is a tool for men to get a job and for a girl to increase her "marketability" in marriage market. I believe India would be better off by adopting Western university system - having polytechnics to teach the basic employment skills and universities for higher education that requires thinking skills.
In Canadian universities, exam dates are not extended by student demands, student do not go on strike and harass professors or damage university property.
I agree that Indian Universities need to change their working, introduce communication improvement, and modify their examination approach. However, just communication and presentation skill cannot work in 21st century. It can help somuch and not more. I think America and the world is paying price for that by electing Obama who has proved to be ineffective in combating economic woes and hence USA and the world suffers. I think he knows his own deficiencies and hence has gone on record couple of times to emphasize that USA needs to do more in field of Science and Maths to compete China and India. Three Idiots was good movie, which really highlighted many ills of India’s education system. However, at the end of the day, Science would prevail. In Canada, I have had many opportunities to interact with Canadian Cas and I find them woefully lacking in technical aspects, though they can present their case very skilfully and effectively. In my opinion, combination of knowledge and soft skills is must. Either one alone would not help.
One more thing about communication skills- In very first month of landing in Canada, I attended HR programm for new immigrants and one guy told us that in Canada, when you speak to your boss, you look in to his eyes, do not avert it because that is misinterpreted as if you are hiding something or lying. Now the same thing in India would be termed as rude. So when you say that Indian lack in communication skills, I guess part of it is cultural and part is lack of vocabulary. My accent has not changed a bit and there are some morons who comment about it. I always challenge them to learn one more language and then make fun of my accent. I do not think this is lack of communication skills. It just prejudice and we have to deal with that. I hope you do not consider these observations to mean that Indian Universities do not need to change their approach, they do and must to compete in the new world. But mere emphasis would turn India again in to a third world country which I guess USA would be in next 20 years if immigration stops.
Greetings Nightmare
THat was indeed some insightful observations from you. However I wonder if what sector in India you are talking about when you said "...when you speak to your boss, you look in to his eyes, do not avert it because that is misinterpreted as if you are hiding something or lying. Now the same thing in India would be termed as rude."
RUDE? woah that is such a generalization to say the very least. It is very much encouraged in the corporate world no matter where you work (India or Canada)
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Bombay State of mind
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Originally posted by Nightmare
However, just communication and presentation skill cannot work in 21st century. It can help somuch and not more.
#1 - Read "Emotional Intelligence" and "Working with Emotional Intelligence" by Daniel Goleman
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I think America and the world is paying price for that by electing Obama who has proved to be ineffective in combating economic woes and hence USA and the world suffers. I think he knows his own deficiencies and hence has gone on record couple of times to emphasize that USA needs to do more in field of Science and Maths to compete China and India.
Why are you dragging Obama into this conversation? He didn't start this whole housing bubble mess. Watch Michael Moore's "Capitalism - A Love Story".
Also, still it is IIT ians who flock to MIT/Harvard and not the other way.
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Three Idiots was good movie, which really highlighted many ills of India’s education system.
You use "good" and "3 idiots" in same sentence. I am not going to further argue in this matter.
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However, at the end of the day, Science would prevail. In Canada, I have had many opportunities to interact with Canadian Cas and I find them woefully lacking in technical aspects, though they can present their case very skilfully and effectively. In my opinion, combination of knowledge and soft skills is must. Either one alone would not help.
One more thing about communication skills- In very first month of landing in Canada, I attended HR programm for new immigrants and one guy told us that in Canada, when you speak to your boss, you look in to his eyes, do not avert it because that is misinterpreted as if you are hiding something or lying. Now the same thing in India would be termed as rude. So when you say that Indian lack in communication skills, I guess part of it is cultural and part is lack of vocabulary. My accent has not changed a bit and there are some morons who comment about it. I always challenge them to learn one more language and then make fun of my accent. I do not think this is lack of communication skills. It just prejudice and we have to deal with that. I hope you do not consider these observations to mean that Indian Universities do not need to change their approach, they do and must to compete in the new world. But mere emphasis would turn India again in to a third world country which I guess USA would be in next 20 years if immigration stops.
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